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two spirited

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by TrevinMichael, Sep 12, 2018 at 6:37 AM.

  1. TrevinMichael

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    I liked wearing dresses at times, but it is not something I do often.
    Traditionally two spirited people would be men who wore and took on lives of women in tribes in North America.

    For me it means I have feminine and masculine energy. I bring an understanding of both worlds.

    I am extremely accepting and nurturing. Some might say I am bisexual. Some might even say I am gay.
    I liked being with my wife too much from 20 to 30 something to be considered gay.

    I do remember liking dresses. I do like men. I do like women. I consider myself two spirited.

    I also like kilts.

    Gender wise I am Male if you base it on sexual organs, but I also have a strong feminine side.
     
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  2. AlexJames

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    i think two-spirited is just a native american thing...i've gotten the impression that its considered offensive to use the label if you aren't a native american yourself. there are other labels though...bigender and genderfluid come to mind.
     
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  3. fadedstar

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    I don't think it has much usefulness or relevancy outside of native American culture. It seems unnecessary to me to (mis?)appropriate the culture of such a battle-weary and exploited people. But that's just my opinion.
     
    #3 fadedstar, Sep 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018 at 11:22 AM
  4. Spot

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    I’m not sure that you can just claim you are a Two-Spirit. It was traditionally a ceremonial and spiritual title you are given by the Elders of your tribe. They were also highly respected members of their tribe as they were said to have a close relationship with the Creator, due to the belief that they were given both a male and female spirit.

    Also, your information is incorrect. Historically, there are actually records of biologically male and biologically female Two-Spirits. They did not always crossdress either. It depends on the tribe, as not all had rigid gender roles but in general, it referred to an individual who undertook both male and female duties.

    Kilts were also traditionally worn by the men of Scotland whereas the women wore what is called an earasaid.

    However, I think a male who sometimes wears dresses is called gender non-conforming...
     
    #4 Spot, Sep 13, 2018 at 6:52 AM
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018 at 6:57 AM
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  5. TrevinMichael

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    I am not the only one who does that is not native.

    And I can. I have felt this was for over 45 years.

    I have been raised around native Americans my adopted sister is half. She died when I was in high school.

    I am not asking for anyone's approval here I am telling you I am two spirited and that is how I always saw myself. I have poured sweat lodges since I was younger, and was asked to by a native american.

    I am not asking anything. This is who I am. I never said women were not. Historically it has been seen in men more in some tribes.

    I am not the only two spirited I know and others who are native not only agree with me but see me this way.
     
    #5 TrevinMichael, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:59 PM
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018 at 9:00 PM
  6. TrevinMichael

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    I said traditionally aka many times it has been men, I never said females were not.
     
  7. TrevinMichael

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    This thread was not done for you to approve or judge. It is who I am. I was adopted into the Ottawa tribe a very long time ago as a young man. You do not know who I am at all. I am at Pine Ridge often. I have several friends like me, one other was also adopted into the tribe. Seems a lot of people can just jump on others with out knowing anything about them.
     
  8. TrevinMichael

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    The world is full of many people. And many of them have notions. Life is not black and white it is full of every color of the rainbow. I am who I am. I am not going to change.

    Your ideas are just that ideas. How we treat others says a great deal about who we are. I choose to treat people with kindness and love.
     
    #8 TrevinMichael, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:09 AM
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018 at 12:09 AM
  9. AudryLeigh

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    Jesus people, let's get judgmental, shall we?

    Hey Trevin,

    I can't say that I agree with any of the above. First off I thought we accepted and respected everybody -- I thought that was most of what this was about. I do know more about the Native Americans than most people, but I've heard the term Two-Spirit from way back, and not just from Native Americans.
    I agree.
    And, I agree.
    WTF, are people here just outright bigots? Yeah, I know this is harsh, but what most of you just did was to disrespect someone because of his gender. Oh, is it because there is no "2" in LGBT?

    Trevin, I have to apologize, on behalf of my people. This has been embarrassing. Actually I have some relief from White Guilt. I was made a member of the United Tribes of the Illinois and Iroquois nations, by a council of the 8 last remaining full blooded (male) members. This came after two and a half days if instruction in all the traditions, art, history, culture, stories and legends, dance, spirituality, symbolism -- everything. So I can disown the folks who made the above posts. Jesus people. I've been criticized for being harsh, but this deserves harsh. Dissing a person because of their gender. This is an LGBT site, isn't it?

    So Trevin,
    Hugs from,
    Audry Leigh
     
  10. TrevinMichael

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    thanks for that

    I am who I am

    Two Spirited has always fit, and even if I did not have the friends and family that welcomed me in that are native american, it still would fit.

    I did not put the tread up for others to tell me who I am. I put it up because it is who I am.

    Then on another thread someone who posted on this one went on to attack me there as well.

    I was always the outcast, but I was welcomed into the homes of my friends. No matter what backgrounds my friends come from they are friends. The color of ones skin is not important what is in someone's heart is.