Hello there. First of all, thanks for stopping by and reading my story. I know it's kinda long and complex. Also, it's my first post here, so I'm really sorry if this story sounds just like any other or if it's too repetitive. If I break any rules, please let me know and I'll gladly try to fix it (even though I read the code of conduct, just to be sure that I'd be doing the right thing). Well...I come from a very traditional Christian background, so you all can imagine how homophobic this environment was (and still is). I remember being somehow delicate in my early teens (maybe because and I had no masculine example around me, being raised by my single mother and being the youngest kid and the only boy), but that quickly changed and I turned out to be quite masculine (and I'm really comfortable with that). I remember consciously having girl crushes but, in hindsight, I now know I also had boy crushes and they were so much more intense, even though I wouldn't see it back then. I didn't even realise I had a thing for boys, because I always try to hide it from myself. Then I discovered porn. At first I only watched straight porn, but soon after I was curious about how man on man sex was like and not long after I started watched gay porn, which was so much more arousing to me. But even then I was in denial. I kept saying to myself that I watched it as a form of acceptance, since watching gay porn I only saw men, different from life where I was surrounded by women only and felt like a stranger. At the same time, I started dating girls. Girls showed interest in me and, since I was curious about dating (as any teenager), I went for it. But being with girls was always kinda of "meeeh". I mean, it wasn't bad...but it wasn't great either. It certainly wasn't the big deal all my friends talked about, but I then thought that was it. It never really felt that great - itwas very uncommon for me to be aroused while being with a girl. And I loved staring at boys - at the gym, at the mall, on the beach...I kept creating excuses to justify that, telling myself that I looked at them because I'm too competitive (which I really am) and wanted to make sure that I looked better than them. When I was in my early 20s I was having a crisis and I went into therapy. I deep down knew that I had an issue with my sexuality, but I was too scared to face the truth, so I never mentioned it to my therapist. It was two years...I got dead stiff just to imagene that she might ask anything about my sexual orientation. Well, around that time I met a beautiful young girl to whom I had a great connection. I really enjoyed being with her. I wanted to be with her all the time. She was lovely, supportive, beautiful, all the things a guy would want in a woman. And I thought: she can "make me straight". So we started dating. And I truly and deeply loved and cared about her. Being both Christians, we didn't have sex until we got married. However my urges towards men didn't stop, but I thought they would when I got married and started having a sex life. But they didn't stop. Never did. Some years after we got married I was feeling extremely unhappy. I knew something wasn't right in me. The desires, the urges to be with men never ended. And, since I had never been with a guy, the curiosity was killing me. I kept asking God to "heal" me, to set me free from my filthy desires, but I'm still waiting for this miracle (now I know it'll never come). I was living in a closet and it was getting tighter and tighter. So I decided to tell a friend. The first person I ever had the guts to be 100% honest. And it felt as a relief, she was fully supportive and she didn't judged me at all. She understood that, even though I was feeling anxious and that I wanted to go out and try new things, I didn't want to hurt my wife. So I came back to the closet I was living in. A few months later I was living in pain and agony, so I decided to talk to my sister, which is also a conservative Christian. She convinced me that I wasn't gay - because my thoughts and feelings didn't define who I was. And that God would set me free from this sin. But I had to talk to my wife and be honest with her. And I did that, the day after. It hurt like hell. She knew there was something wrong about our marriage, bit she could never see that coming. I'd always been her charming prince, offering protection and shelter against life's storms. And now I was the one who hurt her, deeply. But I vowed to continue married. I didn't want to give up on her. I really thought that being open to her would help me overcome this dark side of me. But life's been a rollercoaster ever since. I still love her and care about her. But honestly I want to be free. Both her and my sister are trying to push me back into the closet. They keep telling me that God is working to set me free, that what I feel is a Satan's trap, that he wants to destroy our family, that if Jesus cleansed a man with leprosy he can also perform such a great miracle in my life...I honestly doubt it all. I'm tired of waiting for a miracle that never comes. I'm currently going to therapy, both with a psychologist and a psychiatrist. And I'm taking two different medicines. Last week I once again told her that I'm gay, that it'll never change and that I'll never be able to fulfill her. She begged me to stay, to not abandon her, that once we were deeply in love with each other and, if she really meant something to me, that I should give her and God another chance. I totally feel like crap and life's just dull. So that's it, that's my story. Does anybody relate to that? More specifically, I'd like to know if there's someone out there with the same Christian upbringing who's now living out: do you regret it? Life does feel better once you're free? Do you feel like you're going to hell? Thanks for spending some minutes reading my story. Have a nice day!
Hey JToivonen, Welcome to EC! I'm a brazilian, like you, and, unfortunately, I know that prejudice is something common in our country. If you think about it, the idea that being LGBT+ is a "sin" doesn't make much sense. If you were raised like me, you have heard people (catholics, evangelicals, and others) saying that God is love, and that our main mission in the world is to do good deeds, to be a positive force in the world. Personally, I think that's a beautiful message, and I agree with it. However, I don't think it makes sense when some people (fortunately, not everyone) say that, but then proceed to bash LGBT+ people, saying that this is a sin and that we will go to hell. Our "crime"? Being ourselves and loving who we love. At this point, to justify their prejudice, these people try to connect the LGBT+ community to crimes or misdeeds. "Oh, but that guy was gay and he was arrested for touching a boy!", "That woman was lesbian and she lost all of her money to drug abuse!". These generalizations are nonsense, and full of assumptions and prejudice. LGBT+ people are completely normal, just like straight people. Unfortunately, that means there are indeed problematic people who are LGBT+ too. But, just like you can't say all straight people are criminals because there are straight criminals, you can't say all LGBT+ are criminals (or anything else) because there are LGBT+ criminals. And, in most cases, we, LGBT+, just want to live our life without hurting anybody. We just want to live and love without fear of being attacked. In other words: The only difference between a straight person and a LGB+ person is their attractions. A straight person is attracted to people of the opposite gender. A gay or a lesbian is attracted to people of the same gender, and a bisexual to both. That's it, the only difference. Stereotypes and generalizations full of prejudice don't represent reality. And, if this is the only difference... then why would we be sent to hell? Just because we were born with these attractions, to the same gender? It doesn't make any sense to believe someone will be punished because they are who they are, even considering they aren't harming nobody by being themselves. Plus, you can't cure what isn't a disease, and you can't fix what isn't broken. You are who you are, and you love who you love. In my point of view, as long as you are happy and you aren't harming anyone, then it is ok. There's nothing filthy or wrong in being attracted to another adult, regardless of gender. It doesn't make any sense to consider love a trap from Satan, just because it isn't the type of love straight people consider "normal". We have a text called Religion and Homosexuality which you might want to read. I hope it is useful to you! I think you did a good thing by going to a psychologist and psychiatrist (provided that they are registered professionals in the CFP - unfortunately, there are some charlatains out there, so it's best to be careful). What do you think about all of this? How do you feel about it?
Thanks for your kind reply, Chiroptera! Yeah, good to know that I'm not the only Brazilian over here, hahaha! And, sadly, that's true, our country doesn't treat LGBT people in a fair way, specially right now, with this conservative backlash... I nowadays agree with you. I don't think that being gay is something dirty or that is going to send me to hell. And, to be honest, I internally feel quite comfortable with the realisation that I'm gay. I don't feel diminished because of that. If there really is a God, He then created me the way I am. I must say though that, sometimes, I feel that He was kinda sadistic and he'd played with me. Because when I was growing up I really couldn't understand myself...I didn't have all the information I have now to realise what I really was. I truly considered myself to be straight - I used to date girls (even though we didn't have sex), I was masculine, good-looking, enjoyed sports and things that guys use to enjoy...when I looked at myself in the mirror, I used to think "I can't be gay. This attraction for guys must be something else. It's all a misunderstanding". And now I'm married and trapped in life that does not represent what I feel I really am. Let me ask you something: I understood, from what you said, that you also had a religious upbringing, right? So how did it feel when you came out? Did it really make you happier? Was it worthy? I ask you this because I grew up hearing stories that "sin at first is delightful but it brings nothing but destruction and pain". Is that so? Do you have any regrets? Once again, thanks for answering!
There are a few of us. We are everywhere, right? Hahaha Yes, then you know how things are going, recently. Unfortunately, people full of prejudice are being more vocal these days. But we are still here! I will be honest with you. Although my family is religious, for the most part, I'm not, so my point of view comes from a "different angle" than the view of a religious person. However, if God exists, then do you really think he was sadistic with you, or maybe the problem isn't with him, but in our society? In my view, regardless of our personal believes, prejudice is the problem, and it is really clear that some groups are promoting it. OThe confusion, the lack of understanding to others and to ourselves, the lack of compassion... that is something that unfortunately is promoted in our society, to benefit some groups. Based on what you said before, about the conservative wave in Brazil, I think you understand what I'm saying. It is pretty clear some groups are blaming LGBT+ people (among other groups) for many problems in our society. To divert the attention of people from important subjects, they use us as an escapegoat, promoting violence against us and saying we are responsible for things that are going wrong in society. I ask you this because I grew up hearing stories that "sin at first is delightful but it brings nothing but destruction and pain". Is that so? Do you have any regrets?[/QUOTE] Yes, I had a religious upbringing, but I must admit my coming out was really smooth, compared to other people here. My mom is a catholic, and since I was a kid, we used to go to the mass together, on sundays. I was baptized, and, once I was of age, I participated on catechism. I stopped going to the church shortly after I finished that process, with the first communion (for reasons that aren't LGBT+ related - during that time, I was focused on other things and didn't really question my sexuality). I came out to my friends first, since I feared the reaction of my parents. However, once I came out to my parents, they were confused at first (especially since they didn't understand bisexuality - as you probably know, here in Brazil people are divided between "straight" and "gay", and you don't hear much about bisexuals), but they were accepting. They always taught me to respect everyone, including LGBT+ people. Yes, it wasn't perfect, as they used to make some homophobic jokes (like my father imitating my gay cousin, who behaves in a flamboyant way), but, aside from that, they always respected LGBT+ people and, after I came out, even the jokes stopped, as they started to learn more about the theme. In other words, I'm priviledge to have a family like mine. We openly talk about the theme nowadays, and, when I had a boyfriend, he even stayed at my parent's house with me for a week, on christmas, and they were totally ok with it. Coming out was a huge relief for me, and I don't regret it one bit. I know that, in many cases, unfortunately, people have to deal with more complicated situations than mine. Not all parents are accepting (at least at first). However, I don't think it is worth living a lie (pretending to be something you are not - straight) just to please others. Of course, you don't need to come out if you don't want to. This is about you and yourself, and you don't need to justify your actions and your desires to anyone if you don't want to, as it is a private matter. But I don't think forcing yourself to live in a way you don't want to only leads to pain, as you would be living a lie. We have many examples here in the forum of people who tried to marry people of the opposite sex and ended up regretting it, because that's not who they are. Everyone deserves to be happy. I don't think it is worth living a lie just to please others and to fit in the "straight box". At least for me, that's not who I am, and, even though I'm bisexual, I wouldn't be happy living like that. If I end up dating and marrying a woman (which is possible, in my case, as I'm attracted to men and women), I want to do it naturally, because I like her, and not because I need force myself to do something I don't want to because this is what others are expecting from me. Does that make sense? What do you think? No problem! Like I said, I digress a bit, but I hope this helps! I haven't touched the subject of your marriage because you didn't ask about it. But, if you want, you can check (or post in) the Later in Life section. Members frequently discuss marriage there.
I understand exactly how you are feeling, I've been married (twice) and have children. I was raised in a conservative, rural environment and always knew I had "feelings" for guys at a young age, but figured it was just normal curiosity and once I found the right women, I'd be fine (since I did have opposite sex attractions). However, that deep down ache never goes away. I prayed to God for years to "heal" me and take those feelings away, but it never happened. Then you go through feeling ashamed and flawed as a person, wondering why you have this "curse" that you can't get rid of. I'm just going to tell you right now, it will never go away, you have to learn to accept yourself, decide you are not "flawed", and hold your head up high. It's not easy, and it never gets easy, but once you accept yourself, it gets better....
Thanks again, Chiroptera! Well, since I'm new here, I don't know how to answer you quote by quote, so I'll answer what you said along my post, hehe. Well, you asked me if I think if God is sadistic...well, if he knew that I'd turn out gay, then why didn't he give all the information I needed in the first place? He tricked me into thinking that I was something that I was not. I tried to "follow the rules" (praying, going to church, believing in Him, marrying being a virgin, trying to live as He pleased) but apparently none of this worked and now I live in agony and pain. Worse: I'm causing my wife a lot of suffering. I honestly want to live free and come out. I dream of living free, the way I am every single day. And I'm not really afraid of what other would think. But I truly care about her. I don't want to hurt her even further. And of course I'm afraid of regretting it later. I hear people saying at church that Sim tastes sweet at first but it soon goes sour...so I'm afraid of, after a while, being unhappy and wanting my "straight" life back. At the same time...life is unbearable right now. I just can't go on living like that, pretending I'm something I'm really not. I now know that I'm gay. And I want to be gay. I want to live freely. I told her that but she just doesn't accept it. As I said, she keeps saying that she loves me very much, she won't give up on me, that God will help us out. But I don't know...she has a "plan" for me to overcome my homosexual side (praying, avoiding porn, avoiding thoughts with other guys, doing things together, having sex more often) but I honestly don't think they're gonna work. Asking about my marriage...hehehe...I already came out to her, but that wasn't enough. Should I leave her? (You mentioned that I could post in "later on life" section. Would that be the right place to talk about marriege or I can keep on going here?) Thanks again!
Thanks for the reply, Mav96213. Well, you said you've been married twice...but what about now? Did you come out? If you did, are you happy with your decision? Also, I know that, if I decide to stay married, the gay side of me will never go away. And now I understand it's not a flaw, it's a part of me just like any other thing that happens in my mind. But the thing is: how will I be able to be happy if I don't act in that? I don't know if it's going to change later, but I don't feel I'm bisexual, I feel attracted basically by men only. So how would I ever cope with that? Married to a woman, whom I love, respect and care about, but lusting for men? It doesn't sound to me as something that I'll be able to learn to live with. But I night be wrong.
No problem, whatever is easier to you. If you want to use quotes, just click the "+Quote bellow the post you want to quote, and then add the quote on the reply box, on the bottom of the page. But if you don't want to, that's fine. Well, as I said, I can't comment in details about this because I'm not a spiritual person myself, so other members may have more insight than me. However, I think the main problem isn't God, but the fact that our society (including organized religion, in many cases) is full of prejudice and misconceptions, which end up doing harm and confusing straight and non-straight people. But that's just a free comment. Others may be more helpful than me on this subject. That's great, you are going in the right direction! Yes, married life is more complicated than just saying "f*** it!", and I think it is good that you are also worrying about her happiness. However, on the other hand, there are two things to consider: 1- Even if you love her, you have your own life, and you deserve to be happy. 2- Even if you put her happiness as a priority, would she truly be happy in a relationship based on a lie (for instance, you telling her you are straight or forcing yourself to be straight, even though you aren't)? First, it is not a sin, like we said. The idea of "sin tastes sweet and then goes sour" is part of the prejudice against LGBT+ people. There's nothing wrong in living a happy, non-straight life. About the fear of wanting your old life back, remember that you don't need to rush anything. If you believe that, for instance, breaking up and starting a new life, open to other romantic/sexual possibilities is a good thing, then, of course, you are free to plan it and do it. However, you don't need to jump right into that if you don't feel ready. One step at a time, there's no need to rush anything. You can't change one's orientation. Again, you can find many examples here in the forum of people who tried to "pray the gay away", and it doesn't work. Sometimes, the person manages to fool him/herself for some time... only to end up feeling miserable and with relationship problems again further down the road. You are who you are, and there's no changing that (again, because being gay is completely natural - you can't fix what isn't broken). About leaving her, I know this isn't a great answer, but it is up to you. How do you feel about your marriage? Do you feel breaking up now would be the best decision for both of you? Maybe talking to her about this again? Do you feel it is worth staying in this marriage? What do you think? If you are sure things aren't working, then dragging things out may do more harm than good, as you are only delaying the inevitable. However, if you aren't ready to make a decision, then maybe talking to her again and discussing this with your therapist (if you haven't done so yet) may be a good start. If you want to discuss it here, then feel free to. But not everyone reads entire threads, especially if the subject changes. So, if you want, you may open a new thread, especifically about marriage, in the Later in Life section. It's up to you. You are welcome!
My story isn't too dissimilar to yours. I too was brought up in a very religious family, which is no doubt a big reason as to why I went so deep into denial. I'm no longer a practicing Christian, and honestly don't know what I believe any more when it comes to religion. But one thing I am certain of - if there is a god, then he made us the way we are. Why would he create such a broad spectrum of sexuality if it were a sin? It's not a question of free will or giving into temptation. It's who we are. So no, I don't believe hell is where all non-straight people are heading.
Thanks for the reply, Jjgates. But let me ask you something: have you been living openly as a gay man? Or are you still in the closet? If you've come out, how does it feel living openly after such a religious (and oppressive, I suppose) upbringing?
I'm bisexual, and so far out to my wife only. How out I am to the rest of the world depends on her and how comfortable she is with the assumptions people will make about us (I'm not in an open relationship, and don't want to be). As to how it feels - it feels good to know that someone loves the real me, not a masked version of me.
Oh, and I should add that in terms of the oppressive upbringing, I think the only problems it creates is in my own mind. It's hard to shake the long conditioning that to be not straight is somehow wrong. But I'm getting there.
Thanks for answering. It's good to know that you feel loved by who you are. I agree with you, we are who we are. We shouldn't feel ashamed by being true to ourselves.
Exactly. We are who we are. So we can either embrace it and let others do the same. Or we can live locked in self-hatred and misery. My worry was that coming out would lead to rejection. But the reality was that nothing could be worse than rejecting myself - that was an awful place to be.
I'll keep thanking you for your replies, Chiroptera, hehehehe! Well, to answer your question about my marriage: I love her, but not in a way a husband is supposed to love his wife...I mean, I care about her, I want nothing but her well-being...but I think that's it. But once I was truly in love with her and I wonder "what happened to that love?"...in part I know that, even though I loved her for real, my urges always made me wish to be with a guy, both physically and romantically. But I thought I could hide and control those feelings, which is now obvious that I can't. Everytime I mention the possibility of us breaking she cries a lot, she begs me to stay, she feels desperate and hopeless and it makes me feel miserably guilty. She wishes she'd known about me before we got married and so do I...she says that I promised her to grow old with her and she can't imagine living without me and it makes me think about breaking my promises and my vows...it makes me feel so selfish, like if I didn't care about her. I totally feel like a jerk. But I'm not happy and I don't think I'll be. I told her that, "how can I make you happy if I'm not happy myself?", but she insists that we're going to make it and we'll be victorious in the end, we're going to be a stronger couple. Her faith is as solid as a rock. I really feel hopeless.
No problem. Like I said, only you can decide what's the best action in this case. But, if you understand that you can't change your orientation, and as you are sure your love for her isn't a husband-wife love (in other words, there's no sexual attraction, right?), then that's something to consider. The fact that she is in denial about this doesn't change things. Of course, until a certain point, her sadness is understandable, considering things aren't going the way she expected. However, as you said yourself, how can you make someone happy if you aren't happy yourself? In my point of view, if you are sure things aren't working, then delaying the inevitable and dragging things out will only make everything more difficult, especially if she believes she can change you. Plus, as I said, I believe communication is key, in any relationship. If she can't even talk about the possibility of a break up, then that's a problem, because it will be hard to be honest with her if she isn't willing to communicate and consider your feelings too. Again, it is understandable that she didn't expect all of this, but your feelings are important too, and not being able to talk clearly about this only makes everything more complicated. Have you talked to your therapist about this?
No, there's no sexual drive towards her whatsoever. I feel really sad and guilty to acknowledge that...but this is me being 100% honest. And I couldn't agree more with you when you say that delaying things will only make them harder in the future, since it's something unavoidable (at least if I want to take a chance in being happy someday)...but the "breaking up barrier", with all the resentment, hurting and crying, is huge and it makes me feel like I'm the worst person who ever walked on Earth. Yes, I've mentioned this both to my psychologist and my psychiatrist. Both of them tell me that me being gay will never change. The psychologist tried at first to see if my marriage could be healed, but he thinks it's best for both of us to part ways. The psychiatrist says that I can stay married if I choose to, but it'd take a lot of effort and emotional energy for me to manage that, and probably I won't succeed. And both of them say that staying married is dishonest and unfair for both of us.
Q: Well, you said you've been married twice...but what about now? Did you come out? If you did, are you happy with your decision? A: Single | Have not come out due to my children | Can't say I'm "happy", just getting by | I wish I had taken a different path earlier in life, however, sadly we don't get "do-overs"...
Regrets and what-ifs hit me hard when I was struggling with my identity. They were a nasty spiral of kicking myself for not doing things differently, and then kicking myself again as a different path would have meant my kids didn't exist - it was like wishing them away. Eventually I came to the conclusion that this is ridiculous. I don't mean it was just futile - do-overs don't happen - I mean that I was holding my younger self to an impossible standard. It's easy to look back with rose-tinted specs and think "I could have done this" or "I should have done that." But the reality is every decision we took was because we felt it was the right decision at the time. We were affected by our feelings, our environment and our circumstances. Decisions about whether or not to come out were dictated by how emotionally ready we were, and how safe we felt. So in reality, if we went back again and lived the same life in the same circumstances, we'd make the same choices. So don't hold your younger self to your current standards and mindset. Don't kid yourself that the world when you were young was the same as the world around you now. It wasn't. It was hard. In short - give your younger self a break.
Jggates, Thanks for the insightful response, appreciated. I get what you are saying, and I agree with you as well... things were different 30 plus years ago. I'm not saying it is easy for anyone in the LGBT today, but it is better and in a somewhat more accepting light. So even with "giving my younger self a break", it still does not change the place/spot I'm in today, and I still don't really see a "way out" due to circumstances that led me to today. I guess I've come to accept my plot in life "as is" and try to create as much enjoyment as possible by re-directing my emotions. You learn to live with a portion of you heart ache that has callused over...
