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LGBT News Trump Eyes Defining Transgender Out of Existence

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by HuskyPup, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. HuskyPup

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    Breaking News Today:

    ---The Trump administration is considering narrowly defining gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by genitalia at birth.
    ---It’s the most drastic move yet in a government effort to roll back recognition of transgender people under federal civil rights law
    Full story, Via NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    ~

    I can't say I am one bit startled, but I am very concerned and deeply worried about the Anti LGBT stance of Trump and the Republicans. And, there's measures afoot that would allow health care providers to refuse service to LGBT people on 'religious grounds. With Kavanaugh on the bench, this is even more deeply troubling.

    I hope this is a reminder for folks to get out, and vote the Republicans out, before any more damage is done. I recall this thread, prior to the election, and there was a lot of, "Oh, I don't think Trump will do anything bad to us' remarks, but I always thought it was pretty obvious that he'd kiss the butts of the far right base that elected him, as he is like a child, who gloats over whatever praise he gets.

    And, this is an obvious ploy to get as many of the far right out, ahead of the election.

    But moreover, it is deeply disturbing, and a sign that the country is heading down a troubling, even dangerous path.
     
  2. GreenRun

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    This is terrifying. I am so scared of what our country is becoming. As an owner of a uterus, I worry that I will lose my reproductive rights. As a lesbian, I worry that I will lose my right to marry someone I love and my right to live and work without being evicted or fired for being gay. As someone who has been assaulted, the Kavanaugh hearings and subsequent appointment showed me that it is not safe for me in this country, and I am solely responsible for not only my own behaviors, but policing the behavior of everyone around me as well, and that if anything does happen to me, I won't be believed. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for someone who is transitioning in this country. I agree with you that this is not surprising, but it is utterly horrifying.

    Please, anyone who is a United States resident over the age of 18 GET OUT AND VOTE ON NOVEMBER 6! We need to take our country back, and the only way we can do that is to vote these people out. 36 out of 50 governors, 87 out of 99 state legislators, 35 out of 100 senators, and ALL 435 MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE are up for election. We could change the future of this country if we all get out and vote. So many people on this site are between 18 and 30, and you are the people deciding this election. Our future depends on all of you. Please, do whatever you have to do to vote November 6.
     
    #2 GreenRun, Oct 21, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  3. alwaysforever

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    If you live in the US, vote. Our lives literally depend on it.
     
  4. AlexJames

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    What will happen if Trump succeeds in 'defining us out of existence'? Will it strip us of the right to get any medical services at all? Like, until the next president orders to change the definition back (I assume that can happen right?) does that mean i wouldn't be able to get HRT or top surgery or anything? What effect will this have, is what i mean. I've heard about this all day long, but not its actual effects that it will have.
     
  5. alwaysforever

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    The effects are far reaching. Things like travel become much harder, due to documentation. Need a Visa to travel? Things like applying for a job become difficult to near impossible when a background check shows discrepancies. Health insurance, where you go if you go to prison, the list goes on and on. Legal documents are another place where we would be obstructed from functioning. It makes everything harder.
     
  6. fadedstar

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    I guess trump has never heard of Swyer syndrome or any of the other myriad forms of intersex. "Determined by genitalia at birth" is a pretty crude method to utilize even if you do believe gender and sex are the same thing.
     
  7. GreenRun

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    Yeah, no one seems to realize that so called "biological sex" is a spectrum, not a binary. Not everyone falls neatly into a male or female category.
     
  8. Destin

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    Why does there always have to be such fear-mongering with LGBT people. Every time a thread like this happens people start talking about it like we're all going to die if you don't vote for a liberal. Everyone said Trump winning would destroy LGBT rights, and here we are halfway through his presidency with almost nothing different. You're all blaming the wrong person anyway, Trump doesn't give a crap about any of this, it's Pence who is the anti-LGBT one and it's probably him doing things by himself and then getting Trump to sign off on his work.
     
  9. alwaysforever

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    Okay, let me point out something that should be blindingly obvious. Just because something bad hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean that other people in the community are also in the same position of safety. Things are different. Worse. People are getting targeted by far right wing extremists and beaten in the streets, then nothing gets done about it. You can't assume just because your own little part of the country is safe, that the rest of us are. Step out of your own perspective and listen to people who have been facing violence and oppression. I guarantee if you don't it will be you facing problems in the future. Please go vote. Do something useful.
     
  10. Destin

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    The only people I've ever seen this happen to are protesters who were using violence towards the right-wing people too. I specifically remember one where a protester started spraying flames at right-wingers with a homemade blowtorch and got shot at and beaten up for it. The media claimed for days that the attack was unprovoked and only aired the video of him getting beat up, but the full video showed him trying to set them on fire first. Nobody on the left cared, they still claimed it was the right-wingers fault like always. Almost every protest attack on the news ends up being like that when you find the full video. If you have non-protest examples of LGBT people being attacked by right wing extremists in the street that went unpunished I'd love to have the links for those.

    I live in the #1 highest crime city in my state, in the deepest part of the deep south (Georgia/Alabama/Florida border) where the majority of the population are right-wing bible thumping rednecks. My apartment was broken into less than 2 weeks ago and I was attacked by the burglar. So no my part of the country is very much not safe. I've still never been exposed to anyone being attacked or even strongly verbally insulted for being LGBT, which includes two transgender drag queens who ride the public buses here daily in their full costume (and the buses have a lot of very shady and violent people on them).

    Also I'm a Republican so I don't think you really want me to vote :/
     
  11. AlexJames

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    I have a question. They talk of memos in the article. That is evidently their source. Are these memos they sourced their info from publically available? I would like to verify that this is indeed something the US govt is actively working on. I assumed Trump or someone in govt made a statement, but there is only the New York Times article, is there not? I would like first hand sources as well to verify this. Then i can proceed to have a mental breakdown. And another one if/when this goes to law. Also, finding first hand sources would allow me to track the progress of this endeavor of theirs and not just wait for it to suddenly clutter my social media feeds.
     
  12. alwaysforever

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    If you are a republican I would first go and find a dictionary and look of the definition of fascism. I would then think long and hard about supporting an administration that is embracing encouraging violence as a means of holding power. And by all means, please stay at home if you intend to support this madness.
     
  13. Destin

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    I always think it's funny when liberals say that because when you look at the actual definition, it fits Democrats far better than Republicans. From the Merrian Webster dictionary:

    "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

    Let's review:

    - exalts nation and race above the individual. Republicans are the ones that fight for individual rights like freedom of religion, gun ownership, property rights, reasonable taxes, the right of self-defense etc. while the Democrats try to take away guns, remove religion from things, prioritize public over private property, and raise taxes to ridiculous levels to pay for social programs all using the justification that 'the well being of the country is more important than your individual right to have ___' which is exactly what exalting the nation above the individual means. Democrats are also the ones that nonstop bring race into everything. To Democrats there's no such thing as 'man kills other man' it's always 'white man murders black man in racially charged hate crime' even though that's completely not true and it was just a normal crime regardless of the races involved. They also try to shame and guilt all minorities into voting Democrat using the same logic you're trying to use on me, that anyone who dares to think for themselves instead of just voting the same way the rest of their group stereotypically does (gay, black etc.) is doing something wrong.

    - centralized autocratic government headed by one leader. Republicans are the ones who fight for states rights and the balance of power in the government, so each state and county can decide what's best for itself with many leaders like mayors, governors etc. involved. Democrats are the ones who try to use the national government to suppress the state governments with the President as the one leader in charge of everything like a dictator, using executive orders far more than they were intended to get around the legislative process like Obama did all the time (which makes it a centralized government when the federal leaders do whatever they want while state leaders have no say in the matter).

    - severe economic and social regimentation. Republicans believe in a free-market economy with no economic regimentation at all, and are against things like political correctness and not being able to refuse service to people for whatever reason you want when you own a private business which are both social regimentation forcing you to do and say things certain ways. Democrats are the ones who insist on screwing with the economy nonstop by changing interest rates and messing with businesses by adding ridiculous amounts of regulation which make it impossible to operate a business efficiently, thus harming the economy, and also freak out at anyone who doesn't use the politically correct words (For example I absolutely refuse to use the incredibly stupid politically correct term 'person of color'. No, you're black, latino, Asian etc. not a 'person of color' because white is a color too so it makes no sense at all - but I've been called racist by Democrats for not using the word they like).

    - forcible suppression of opposition. Democrats are the ones that protest the crap out of everything trying to forcibly oppress their enemies and have groups like ANTIFA that attack anyone they don't like while hiding their faces. Democrats are the ones that try to take down and suppress enemies with false allegations of things like sexual assault and racism when they can't get what they want through normal ways. People getting fired for a supposedly racist/sexist tweet from years ago in the name of political correctness for example, or trying to deny Kavanugh the Supreme Court seat despite there being no evidence whatsoever that he actually did what they claimed he did.
     
  14. AlexJames

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    Okay. Guys. Stop it. Quit turning a post about an article that discusses the new york times article into a republican vs democrat, i'm right and you're wrong, political discussion! take it somewhere else! I'm here to discuss where they got their information from, what the potential results of it will be, etc. I would much rather have a reasonable discussion about the article and its validity and how seriously it should be taken than a debate like this. We are all either LGBT ourselves or allies, are we not?
     
  15. Destin

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    It's most likely from a freedom of information request which large news companies like the New York Times use all the time to get verification of things a secret source tipped them off about. It would only be available to the public if they post the documents they found themselves, which they don't normally do at first because once it's published their competitors can run competing stories about it too.

    I see no reason to doubt it's authenticity here, especially since the administration has already previously banned other words in government documents like global warming and a bunch of other things in the past.
     
  16. AlexJames

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    oh okay. thanks for the information!
     
  17. Kodo

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    It's not surprising that it's come to this. I'm sickened and disappointed, as always, with our government recently. I can only hope that this doesn't affect my medical transition...
     
  18. i7025

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    this is so scary that donald trump is doing this
     
  19. i7025

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    if it actually happens i am moving to canada
     
  20. mnguy

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    This is another disgusting move by the administration to hurt people. I'm sure trump didn't come up with it, but he is responsible for going along with it. They refer to gender and sex and don't acknowledge the difference. They claim to be grounded in science, but clearly they aren't following what legit science and medical experts have said. They don't account for indeterminate genitalia or chromosomes other than XX and XY. It's total garbage and dishonest to claim any scientific basis. Unfortunately they know that many people don't understand or care to understand the facts and will believe them and use this to further entrench their ignorance and justify their discrimination. Just read the comments to that or any article on the topic and about half are hateful or totally misunderstand trans people. This is one more example of the US failing its supposed values of truth, justice and equality. Canada's government got this right years ago and the US is going backwards and in more ways than this.