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LGBT News Transgender high school athlete wins Texas State girls wrestling champsionship

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by ECMember, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. ECMember

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  2. Kodo

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    I saw this one, pretty crazy. Honestly I'm glad he won like he did, because if people want to go and complain about "unfair advantage" why don't they let him compete with boys like he wanted to. But no, of course, because they refuse to reconsider their bigoted rules.

    Mack seems like an upstanding athlete, however, and I hope it goes well for him.
     
  3. DoriaN

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    Get rekt.

    I feel bad for all the girls, because of a law or rule that says he had to play in the women's division, and he went undefeated.
     
  4. AlexJames

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    The problem i have with this is i have heard that athletes in the Olympics, for example, have been disqualified and had medals taken away from them for this type of thing. And that athletes can get in trouble for something as simple as cold medicine or some other unapproved medication given by a doctor.

    Is there any truth to that? If there IS then as sad as it is, this FTM boy Mack did have an unfair advantage that in another setting could have been considered illegal. Just looking at the pic in an article, he was more built than the girl he was pictured with in competition. Just because he is transgender does not mean that he deserves special treatment. If in most other settings, such as professional sports or the Olympics, this would be illegal then he should be treated the same as everyone else. That's my two cents on this news story.
     
    #4 AlexJames, Feb 25, 2017
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  5. Sinopaa

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    That's the thing. Rather than going by a set of rules like the Olympics does Texas decided to go transphobic and demanded the state must abide by what's on our birth certificate for competition. To change our gender marker in Texas we're required to have GRS which A.) Isn't possible until you're at least 18 and B.) Costs an average of $21,000+ out of pocket (most insurances consider it "cosmetic surgery" and deny any coverage). Heck, in Tennessee there's no way to change your birth certificate regardless of hormones and surgery.

    He wanted to compete with guys and was basically told no because of what's in his pants. Did he have an advantage? Of course. Everyone could see it and the ignorance of this whole situation. Thing is the testosterone is apart of his identity and not being used specifically for competition. He continued to wrestle because that's the only avenue he was allowed to and to show the utter absurdity of these type of laws. He wasn't asking for special treatment to wrestle girls, but rather fairness to wrestling other guys. If you want to be upset be angry at the system for telling him he's not a real guy and this is the only way he's allowed to compete.
     
  6. Kodo

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    There are several articles on this story, and Mack actually requested many times (as did other families, who even sued over it) that he be transferred to play against boys. It was the league that refused to change its policy and thereby made it unfair for everyone who faced him. In fact it even covered up the issue by saying his testosterone was "well below" tolerable levels. It is true that he is a committed athlete, but he's also been on T for 2 years and had an obvious advantage. But I think he did everything he could and performed honorably as an athlete.
     
  7. AlamoCity

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    I'm from Texas so I was surprised that UIL did it this way (they are fans of drug testing and controlling "controlled" substances). What they should have done (not saying it's right) is:

    Prevent the student from participating in the male division due to his sex (i.e. female) and as the student participated in the female division, ban the student due to unnaturally high levels of testosterone that would pose an unfair advantage and because it is a banned substance and while "medically necessary" as a for to treat dysphoria, it could prove harmful and/or disadvantageous to opponents of the same sex. His parents would raise the issue, maybe the ACLU would bring a lawsuit for Title IX or whatnot, a federal judge might issue an injunction, AND THEN the issue might get appealed to the 5th Circuit. The 5th Circuit is the polar opposite of the 9th Circuit. I'm sure the false reasoning I used in this paragraph would be greatly supported by the panel. I'm sure they might write up something like: while every child should be afforded the opportunity to participate in sports, a wrestler with open wounds or certain medical conditions wouldn't be allowed play because of the risk to others, and it would not be seen as a violation of the rights of the child, and we have to weigh the rights of others to the rights of the plaintiff).
     
  8. iWolf

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    Not sure if your being sarcastic, but are you saying that he needs to be banned from his favorite sport for something he can't control? That's messed up. Even though he had to wrestle girls and therefore had easier matches(testosterone difference), at least he got to wrestle at all. However, they definitely should have let him wrestle in the guys division.

    Neither I nor anybody I know is trans, so one thing that confuses me about trans people in sports is the muscle difference. From what I know, female and male muscles are toned differently, and difference in performance is not just based on difference in hormones. Therefore, having put him in the guys league might have placed him at a disadvantage as well. With this in mind, it is hard to come up with a solution as to what to do. His natural ability as a trans person is higher than his birth gender and lower than his adopted gender, but creating a separate league for trans people is unfair to them, as it is providing unnecessary attention on their gender as they might just want to be recognized as the gender they feel.

    Because of this set of complications, the sports leaders could put him in the men's league, but he would be at a disadvantage because of natural muscle tone. Putting him in the woman's league, as with what happened here, puts the other women at a disadvantage Creating a sepearate league for trans people exposes him when they might not want a spotlight on their sexuality. This puts the matchmakers in a position where they have to choose between the lesser of three evils, and in all cases it is a negative for the trans person. For once, we can't even blame societies gender roles, because of difference in muscles and hormones.

    If I am wrong that females have naturally different muscles than men, ignore everything I just said.

    TL;DR: Putting him in a league with men puts him at a disadvantage because the body he was born in has different muscles than the men. Putting him in a league with females gives him an unfair advantage he may not want to have. Putting him in an all trans league creates exposure and negative stigma. There is no good answer.
     
  9. KyleD

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    I don´t think you understand. As long as you have a valid medical issue for taking testosterone you can´t be disqualified.

    ...And yes, transgender athletes are allowed to compete in the Olympics.

    A stupid rule prevented him from competing with the gender he should be competing with.
     
    #9 KyleD, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  10. Sinopaa

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    How about just let him join the guys division and the coach sorts out if he makes the cut? Even if there is some sort of muscle difference and he completely tanks at least he was given a chance like every other guy out there. He would probably gracefully bow out, train harder, and try again next sign-up.
     
  11. AlamoCity

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    I was being sarcastic because of how UIL works having gone to school with athletes that dealt with them. I was just surprised at their ineptitude. I sometimes have trouble conveying sarcasm properly through the written word.

    However, as you said, there will be a choosing of lesser evils for a trans person. Of course, the least in this cause is to let Mack compete in the male division. However, let's just say he just started hormones or can't have hormones (let's say there's a cardiovascular condition and doctor doesn't want to prescribe it to him for his health), Mack would be at a great disadvantage. Mack's case is simple because he's already gone through some masculinization that puts him closer in strength to a male than female so it's a no-brainer where to put him division-wise, but, what of a trans boy who just came out and wants to do wrestling? Should he be put right off the bat in the male division or would it be prudent that he just abstain from wrestling until he's gone through enough change to be able to compete "normally?"

    One problem is that trans advocates readily like to label being trans as a "medical condition" as opposed to a mental health issue. I see no problem with this, however, if we see being trans as a medical condition, wouldn't it be the same as say a sprained ankle or broken bone that needs to heal (i.e. for testosterone to "do the job")? You wouldn't want to compete with a sprained ankle (nor should you), but if we consider transmen to have a medical condition, then perhaps they should apply the same threshold to participation in sports as if they had another, more acute, medical condition. What I'm saying, not for Mack since testosterone has already begun to well "do the job," but if someone just comes out as FTM and wants to do wrestling or any gendered sport, would it be prudent for them to choose to wait (e.g. perhaps avoid competing) until their body can meet the demands of a cis boy?
     
  12. Sinopaa

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    I wouldn't see a problem with that. I would have had to wait for my testosterone levels to drop before competing with other women. The two year wait would suck, but it'd give the athletes time to train and get used to the changes. When I lost my testosterone I had to relearn how to do a lot of things as my muscles gradually reduced.
     
  13. Sleeping Owl

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    I always just said it would be best for the legitimacy of the sport to let the trans have to compete at a disadvantage, unfortunate but it really is the lesser of evils. I hadn't considered before what AlamoCity said about a trans having just started hormones and it not being safe for them to compete; perhaps there should be additional research into what level of testosterone one a case-by-case basis is deemed safe to move divisions and what is deemed unfair.
     
  14. AlexJames

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    I never said i was upset. I was just stating my opinion that's all, i'm just terribly long winded. Not gonna lie i am upset now even if i knew my opinion would be an unpopular one. I understand everything you said, i read an article on that before i ever posted here. I know he was denied and i know its wrong - he should've been allowed to compete with the boys - but the fact is he wasn't and for now that's the law. The law needs to change everywhere so stuff like this doesn't happen. Research needs to be done, people need to be educated, and new standards that are fair to both transgender and cisgenders need to be written. But that's probably another decade away, so i was just stating what i thought should have happened - even if its wrong - given what i knew at the time.

    ---------- Post added 27th Feb 2017 at 01:14 AM ----------

    I know a stupid rule led to all of this. I know the article i read said he was permitted to compete w/ the girls (after being denied competing with the boys) cause it was given by his doctor for a medical reason. I had no idea transgender athletes can compete in the Olympics, i'm sorry. I always thought they were supposed to be the most strict, especially with how Russia got banned last year if i remember right. I said this in a different reply but i was stating my opinion based on what i knew at the time. The article i read, comments about Olympic/Sport disqualifications, and memories of news stories regarding olympic/sport disqualifications. I was stating what i think should have happened given what i knew of prior related history, whether i think it would have been right or wrong. Because we're probably another decade from transgender kids having the same level of acceptance, socially and legally, as lesbian/gay/bisexual kids do right now.
     
  15. Zoe Izumi

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    I doubt it will take a decade for us to make that kind of progress. I'd cut that estimate in half for it taking 5 years at most.
     
  16. KyleD

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    Strict? They knew Russia had been cheating for years but did nothing because Russia gave them a lot of money. It´s a shame considering how many athletes from other countries were robbed of medals.

    That being said, as long as an athlete has a valid reason for taking a banned substance and declares it then they are safe.
     
    #16 KyleD, Feb 27, 2017
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  17. Just Jess

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    It is a preffered tactic of people who like to talk to those right in front of them in the third person general case, as I am doing now and like the gentleman who used the term trans advocates was doing, to pretend the people who offer viewpoints other than their own are "upset". It is a cheap rhetorical trick everyone sees through, and I wouldn't pay any mind to the sort of person who would do it in this thread. He is probably just angry.

    This said I would actually be in favor of hormone levels as a fair physical sex marker.
     
    #17 Just Jess, Mar 3, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  18. ECMember

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    It was cool to find Mack on FB. I sent him a congratulatory PM on his championship win. Wasn't a long message just a brief "Congrats champ" I sent him.