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trans without transitioning

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Nicholas7, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Nicholas7

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    Can you be trans your whole life and not get transitioning. Because I know people who are trans and don’t want surgery to change their sex. I just wanted to know if you could deal with it and accept that you are the way you are born, I also herd therapy is good....
     
  2. Mihael

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    Yes, possible. For some people it's upsetting that they don't have a mind-body match, but for some it's just not.
     
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  3. fadedstar

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    I suppose it depends on who gets to define what 'trans' is. I believe transness is probably biologically innate (as in it's something you're born with in most cases) kind of like intersex-lite. I don't know the stats or how true this actually is but I've heard that many trans people discover they have intersex conditions when going for the routine tests and medical check ups that are necessary before going on hormones. These kinds of biological differences even if very subtle often involve the brain and therefore the mind and identity.
     
    #3 fadedstar, Sep 7, 2018
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  4. Chiroptera

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    This isn't 100% accurate. Sure, it is very likely that physiology and other biological processes play a role too, but there are things involved that go beyond "pure biology". That includes psychology and the understanding of gender roles in our society (what we underestand by the words "man" and "woman"). Those things can't be explained purely by biological processes, even if they are involved (because they probably are).

    Yes, it is possible, like emerry said. For some people, the surgery is a must for a happy and complete life. For others, the surgery isn't needed or desired. That's up to how you are feeling about your own body and identity.

    You mentioned therapy: I don't see any reason not to try it. There are many, many benefits that come from therapy, especially if you are still confused and trying to figure things out. Give it a try and talk to a friendly therapist about your feelings. That can be a huge help!

    (Note: I'm not trans, so I don't speak from experience, but from what i know about the theme).
     
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  5. fadedstar

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    Well I was going to mention what you have in my post but decided not to at the last minute to keep it simple. The reason for focusing solely on biology in my response to the original question is because I thought that was maybe a more interesting take on the situation. The gender role stuff already has plenty of exposure so I didn't think I really needed to go into that again.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm probably the kind of person OP is mentioning in their post. I'm probably wrong about a few things but please read the following very thoroughly.

    Biological diversity is often ignored in favor of fitting humans into a binary category for social convenience. Biology isn't a series of boxes that we tick. The fact is that there are 7-8 billion people on Earth right now and no two are biologically identical. There is no such thing as a "pure male" or a "pure female". Such notion are more reminiscent of religious dogma than genuine scientific inquiry. We are all mere approximations of male or/and female. We are each genetically distinct (barring identical twins/triplets etc) but even identical twins probably get exposed to minutely different hormone ratios and quantities during their prenatal development.

    And in a roundabout way this biological diversity would explain why many (but not all) people feel as though their mind isn't matching up with the gender role assigned to them at birth (and all of the social conditioning accompanying it) based on external physical characteristics. Since external physical characteristics are not always a good indicator of what is going on internally. The rate of people with medically diagnosable intersex conditions is estimated at 1 in 100 births. This is actually quite high when you consider how many people are alive today. Contrary to common misconceptions about intersex conditions not all intersex people are born presenting with obvious external markers of their condition like ambiguous genitalia.

    Even if for arguments sake we're talking about "pure" XX females or "pure" XY males with "perfectly formed" genitals it is primarily hormonal flushing during prenatal development that accounts for the sexual dimorphism of external characteristics and not chromosomes. Hormonal flushing also affects different areas of a developing embryo's/foetus's anatomy at different times of its development (in addition to being a less quantifiable metric than chromosomal makeup.) Chromosomes are just containers of genetic information. Whether that genetic information is read a certain way or not is dependent on a variety of factors. It is my suspicion that sexual dimorphism therefore is a spectrum and no one is not on it somewhere. Out of the 7=8 billion people alive today with a chromosomal makeup of XX or XY, only 2 of them would represent the extreme typified ends of that spectrum. In addition the entire spectrum itself is constantly shifting, expanding and contracting in relation to the birth and death rates.

    I've seen a trend in the LGBT community lately of politically distancing from any notions of hard science as a response to the reactionary right's "there are only two genders" slogan. This in my opinion is a serious mistake and is getting us dangerously close to shooting ourselves in the foot. There are many things about hard science that actually legitimize our identities and delegitimize the position of those willing to take away our rights. Taking that into account, staying silent on the issue of biology may not be the wisest course of action. And doing so may place undue power into the hands of those willing to misappropriate the discipline of biology for their own political ends. So basically sometimes, you have to fight fire with an even hotter and brighter fire and be unapologetic in doing so. We can't dispel ignorance by piling on more ignorance. In essence don't be so quick to right off "pure biology." Science is not the enemy here, just the misappropriation of it by assholes.
     
    #5 fadedstar, Sep 7, 2018
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  6. Chiroptera

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    Just a note: don't use the term "hard science", please. Natural sciences is an important field, but it is just a different field from Social Sciences and others many consider "soft sciences", not more important. Science is science, and all fields are relevant in their own unique way. There's no such thing as "hard" and "soft" science because the methods are different.

    I know you probably know that, but i think language is a powerful tool, and we need to be careful when choosing certain words.

    Besides the use of the term "hard science", i totally agree with you, especially since it concerns me personally (currently i'm studying Education, but i have a degree in Biological Sciences*). If you re-read my previous post, you can see i mentioned that biology probably (read very, very likely) plays a role too, but i don't think we can explain trans just by using biology. Not because it isn't important - Biology is extremely important, and i believe it may help us to understand it (just like it it helps us to understand our sexual orientation), but because humans are complex, and we are touching other fields (like Psychology and Social Studies, like i said) that need to be taken into consideration too.

    In other words, i'm saying science can help us to understand it. But, again, noting the term "hard science", we need to take into consideration more than one field of science - Biology, Psychology, Social Studies, these are all part of science (even if the second and third are seen mistakenly as "soft science"), and all of these fields can help us to understand ourselves better.

    I totally agree with you that science is not the enemy, and i agree that there are people who try to attack science, and that's a mistake, for sure. However, remember that science is not just the ones people consider "hard science".

    *Please don't understand this as "I studied this, so i know what i'm talking about!", like an ad verecundiam. I'm just saying that, if i thought biology wasn't important, i wouldn't have spent years of my life studying it. :slight_smile:
     
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  7. fadedstar

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    Okay, point taken. I will try to use the term 'natural science' instead of 'hard science' from now on.
     
    #7 fadedstar, Sep 7, 2018
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  8. Nicholas7

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    I believe there are only two genders (male and female). But then you have gender - fluid in the middle and transgender is not a gender It's a feeling of being the other gender you are not born with.... but that's what I believe. But here is what I wanna know If someone was Transgender and they got to transition and they wanted to be there gender again what will happen? I don't know the other genders but That's what I believe.
     
    #8 Nicholas7, Sep 7, 2018
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  9. Chiroptera

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    I won't comment on the genderfluid/other genders because it isn't the purpose of the thread.

    About trans: Being trans means you identify as the gender "opposed to your biological sex", in simple terms. Trans isn't a gender itself: If you are a trans woman or a cis woman, your gender is "woman/female". Same with trans/cis men. It seems you understand that already.

    About transition, it isn't something as easy as entering a store and saying "Hey, i wanna buy a different gender", like you buy clothes. For those who end up getting the surgery, before reaching that moment, there are years of therapy and HRT. So, when someone reach the point of the surgery, it is pretty safe to say he/she is sure about what he/she is feeling, and won't just "change their minds" (i'm not saying that can't happen, but i haven't heard of any cases. The process before the surgery, the therapy and HRT, consumes much energy from what i've heard, so it isn't something a person would do for years while being unsure).

    In other words, it's like steps on stairs: There's the therapy, then HRT and therapy, and just after a long process the surgery comes (if that's what the person wants). So it isn't likely the person will change his/her mind at that point.

    (Trans members, please feel free to correct/confirm what i'm saying - again, i don't speak from experience)
     
  10. tystnad

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    there are actually people who transition and along the way discover they are actually a different gender than they thought, or very rarely because they are cis after all. this is particularly true for people who insisted on being a binary gender despite not feeling that way because binary genders are easier to understsand (or they simply did not know there are other genders), or because their gender therapist was not open to the idea of other genders and pushed them into a trans man/woman box (this does unfortunately happen and it’s why it’s super important to leave a therapist if they invalidate your feelings). gender can be very tricky and hard to understand, which is why, for example, there are a number of people who don’t know if they’re butch lesbians or trans men and go a lifetime without ever figuring it out despite their efforts.

    this group is a very small minority because like said above the process before transitioning is very extensive and tries to leave as little doubt as possible, but going on hormones can provide you insights you wouldn’t have been able to have without. however, you can find accounts of detranisitoned people online, and almost all say they do not regret starting to transition originally because it DID give them answers they could not have found otherwise. there are some irreversible changes to taking hormones but these are generally considered a small price to pay for finding your true self. besides, people tend to figure this out quite early in the transition process - not after they have undergone every step you can possibly take - so “going back” is still quite possible. and the steps they did take were often still relevant for becoming more comfortable with who they are - even if that’s not the gender they originally thought they’d be.

    to answer your first question: yes, you can be trans without transitioning because your body is not what makes you a certain gender. for some people their body closely relates to their gender identity and therefore, when they are trans, can feel off and wrong and like it should be different - but that’s not the case for everyone at all, and if you don’t experience discomfort with your body because to you it does not connect to your gender, why should you go through a process that’s quite invasive and intense? you should never have to surgically change your body if you do not wish to. therapy can help people accept that they’re transgender and help them map out what they need, and it can also provide you methods on how to cope with your dysphoria, but it cannot magically heal dysphoria, unfortunately (especially because you have 99% of society telling you your body and gender must somehow line up together).
    additionally, some people no not have access to the medical help they need, for example in countries where there is no trans health care whatsoever. they’re not any less trans for not transitioning. you’re trans because your gender does not align with the gender you’re assigned at birth, and that’s all there is to it
     
    #10 tystnad, Sep 8, 2018
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