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Trans people left in the dust

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by DreamerBoy17, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. DreamerBoy17

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    I feel like this isn't something addressed very often, so I think it needs to be talked about. It seems like recently, but especially since the marriage equality ruling in America last summer, a lot of LGB people are ready to be done with activism and feel as though it's the end of the movement, and now that we all have equality we can go off happily into the sunset.

    But we don't all have equality, and it's becoming more and more painfully obvious. Time and time again, whether through the Drop the T petition, the countless trans women of color murders last year, the new bathroom bills seeking to set back our rights, and the often difficult processes to even begin transition show that no, we aren't done with equality yet. This isn't to blame the LGB part of the community, of course. I know a large amount of them support trans rights. It's the fault of the majority white cisgender heterosexual people in charge of society continuing to bully trans people.

    Yet, there seem to be an increasing number of those in our community that are ready to, frankly, leave behind the transgender people now that they are in a more privileged position where they no longer need the support of trans people. Prejudice exists in a group as diverse as the LGBT community, and it's starting to show. It's hurtful to me to see the lack of understanding and acceptance among those with similar struggles. We shouldn't be trying to split up right now, not in times like these with all of these wack job Republicans trying to force back all the progress we've made.

    Trans people stood with LGB people since the very beginning and Stonewall. We cheered on your victories because you know what? They weren't your victories. They were our victories, as more than a community, as a human society. Equality shouldn't be conditional. We're all just humans that want our rights, and this is not the time to be splitting up when we need to be uniting. Just my opinion. I am not looking to start some heated debate, just wondering if anyone feels the same way.
     
  2. Invidia

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    I totally feel the same way. There has been too much deplorable behavior showcased from left and right, up and down, and just from everywhere, toward trans people, lately. Hopefully this trend will reverse. It's understandable that many LGB people breathe safer now, but as human beings, and as part of our community, there has been a lot of disappointing behavior lately. But also, many are stepping up to say that the T is an important part of our beautiful LGBTQ+ constellation. To those that do, I raise my glass! And also, I ask that you make your voices heard - yours are the ones we need right now. :slight_smile:
    Marriage equality ends nothing - it's just another stepping stone on our path to freedom and justice!
     
  3. Kasey

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    I won't beat a dead horse. We are at least 10 to 15 years behind.
     
  4. 741852963

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    I think we need to be careful to see traditional activism (i.e. public marches/protests etc) as the be all and end all of achieving equality.

    In reality a lot of change is what goes on "behind the scenes" - people changing opinion and influencing society (be they straight, out or closeted).

    Activism is not just what you see on TV.

    The calls to drop the T are controversial but are understandable to an extent. Gender and sexuality are often two very different things and so many LGB people do feel uncomfortable that their gender is questioned as a result of misunderstandings caused by the linkage between LGB and T.

    Really the connection between LGB and T is more a result of similar (but not identical) prejudices experienced by the groups, rather than similarities between their existance. These differences in experiences and needs are naturally going to cause some friction now and again.

    Ultimately I think it is necessary the two are linked; trans people are a much smaller group and so benefit from the increased community (think "safety in numbers"). There will inevitably be times though where trans people are best to represent trans voices though, as again because they are distinct groups LGB people are not always "experts" on this. Actual trans voices can be a lot more powerful too.

    I think we need to be realistic here. Of course trans people and trans POC are murdered, but outside of certain countries (which are the exception, like Brazil), trans people are not murdered at a rate any higher than average compared to any other demographic (in fact for whatever reasion statistically speaking trans people typically have a lower than average rate of murder).

    Of course many of those murders are down to transphobia and we can work to eliminate this to reduce what murders do happen even further. In that sense trans murders are easier to tackle than many other murders which can have harder to tackle causative factors (money/greed, education/employment/gang crime, love/revenge/crimes of passion, mental illness/insanity).

    What I do think we need to be careful of here is not getting carried away. Much like how activists exaggerating female wage gap statistics to further their own agenda do little to help instances where there is actual economic disparity (in fact they hinder it), we must treat facts with care and consideration.

    We should focus on the fact that transphobia is common in trans murders (which is shocking enough) rather than creating a good intentioned but ultimately false panic of a trans murder epidemic.

    I think the issue is largely down to representation and visibility. Historically there was little trans visibility, less than LGB even due to them being a much smaller group). Now we have much better technology and media (TV, film, the Internet) so I think we will begin to see things get better. The internet in particular will help as essentially it can act like a megaphone letting even the smallest voices be heard.

    I do think a barrier that perhaps causes hesitance in LGB or straight people throwing themselves as fully behind trans rights is the lack of understanding. LGB and straight people do have a bit more in common (with their sexuality being on the same spectrum, or different sides to the same coin), and is perhaps easier to understand (as sexual attraction can be very "visible" physiologically speaking with erections and what not!).

    As such transexuality can often seem mysterious or alien as a concept, particularly when transitions which can appear so drastic or painful are factored in. Again though I think visibility and getting trans voices out there will help with this "fear of the unknown".
     
    #4 741852963, Mar 13, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  5. Matto_Corvo

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    I sorta free with all this
     
  6. Invidia

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    Source?
     
  7. 741852963

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    Basic maths.

    In 2015 you had about 20-25 trans murders occur in the US. The US typically has a (rather shocking) overall murder rate of 13,000+ people (in 2014 the estimate was at 14,249).

    If typical estimates of 1% of the population being trans were being used you would presumably expect to see 142 trans murders a year (using 2014s estimate) if things were proportional, or higher if trans people were murdered at a higher than average rate.

    And then if you factor in not all trans people are visible or open about their gender (either due to not beginning outward transition or transitioning and passing well), AND that not all trans murders will be down to transphobia (for example a trans person may be murdered randomly, due to drugs/money, in a unrelated fight) then the number of transphobic murders is probably smaller.

    So no, contrary to what many activists say, trans people are not necessarily more likely to be murdered when you look at statistics. That is not to say it isn't problematic or we shouldn't counter it, not at all - like I've said transphobic murders are one type of murder we know how to tackle (i.e. by fighting transphobia at the source).
     
    #7 741852963, Mar 13, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  8. BradThePug

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    This is blatant misinformation. For one thing, you are assuming that all of the murders that have been reported are the only ones. This is not the case. There is not a designation for transgender murders. The ones that you hear about are often times because friends and family will speak out after their deaths. What about those trans people that do not have supportive friends and family? Well, they are buried under their birth names, and their preferred name is forgotten.

    There is also the fact that the transgender community is a fairly small (and in many areas close) community. So one incident of violence impacts us all because it makes us scared that something is going to happen to us.

    Also, with increased publicity of the transgender community, there has been increased violence.
     
  9. Michael

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    Depends on how you see it, and where... I'd say between 20-30 years behind on the civilized US and most of civilized Europe. Rest of the world... 40, 50 years behind.

    I agree with you, horse is dead
     
  10. 741852963

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    Of course there may be others not named, but that only supports my point. We cannot say there is "definitely" an epidemic of transphobic murders when there are no statistics. And activists referring to such trends are only referencing publicised cases.

    Looking at the statistics we have alone there is nothing to say transgender people are definitely murdered at a higher rate than average. It is speculative and until this is proven we should utilise the hard facts and focus on what we can learn from the horrific cases that we do know have happened, rather than going of "maybes".

    Reality is more powerful than theory IMO.

    Well this is a fact but certainly does not conflict with anything I've said. Where have I said the issue of transphobic murders is not important, I haven't. I'm just saying we should focus on the definite not the maybes.

    This is similar to the 1 in 3 women has been raped and/or sexually assaulted statistic that was thrown round by some feminists. Now women are of course being raped, and a single woman being raped is already one too many. But by throwing a hollow (and very poorly researched) statistic round like that the actual impact and attention on the issue is weakened. Why? Because people just discount it and with it the issue that deserves attention.

    Aswell I think your stated point here is very important. Trans people hearing about violence is naturally traumatic - surely it is enough to hear about actual cases rather than creating a "boogeyman" of an epidemic that may or may not exist? That to me is almost scaremongering. Now a few homophobic murders have happened where I live - and we work towards justice and tolerance. As a community we don't scare ourselves with the notion that there are hundreds of other homophobic murderers lurking around or gay victims that have slipped through the system. I don't think that would be helpful at all.

    Maybe this comes back to your earlier point though. Maybe with more publicity more trans people are open about their transexuality, thus more deaths are reported referencing gender rather than any actual increase in violence.

    ---------- Post added 13th Mar 2016 at 12:39 PM ----------

    I think that is probably spot on.
     
  11. EnchanterForest

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    The thing is that I have found is that no one knows what it is unless they are an RE teacher or related to the trans/queer community. I have to explain on a regular basis what trans is, and it took me ages to find out everything myself. This is probably because it isn't really talked about in school or anything.
    I find it hard to just get by at school now days because everyone is always asking me question, which therefore lead me to panic. I feel sorry for the people who went through this maybe only 2-3 years ago because that would have been hard. What needs to happen is that more people need to educated about the trans community.
     
  12. Calf

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    I wish everything you had said here wasn't even an issue but I understand why it is. The real problem is the way that legal systems work around the world. There should be no need to change the law every time a minority fights for it, it should be changed to provide equality for everyone on the first amendment to the law. Because the legal system rarely works like that, it is our responsibility to fight for everyone's rights, not just our own.
    Don't forget that in many countries the law even treats Ls Gs and Bs differently as well as Ts
     
    #12 Calf, Mar 13, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  13. DreamerBoy17

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    Yep, I wasn't meaning to start a pity olympics here either, but I was mainly referencing to America in particular.
     
  14. Irisviel

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    While in my country there is no equality yet for the LGB, the pattern is similar - acceptance for sexuality increases at much faster rate than in cards to gender. Probably because sexuality is easier to understand and explain.

    I had friends tell me that my being bisexual is fine, because I'm "normal", not one of those transvestite deviants. Being transgender in the closet it's heartbreaking, but it is also the reality. Acceptance for different sexuality, quite simply, grows much faster and it is as true for the US as for almost any other country.
     
  15. Invidia

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    That sounds really frustrating. :frowning2: And those friends don't seem very nice...
    Take care of yourself, honey. x
     
  16. BradThePug

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    Even if we do not have "reliable data" articles like this , and this show that there is still an issue with violence. We may never be able to get reliable numbers on transgender murders, since many are just buried as their birth sex. That's no reason to deny something that is clearly an issue though.

    Just because there is not a reliable source of data is not a reason to argue that transgender people are "safer". In fact, it's probably the opposite because of the hatred that we face even from within the LGB community.