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Top-Bottom preference dilemma

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by Gleeko0, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Gleeko0

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    I did search the current threads via google, but I didn't find anything specific that could help me with my questioning. I will also "expand" the discussion because I think its interesting for the community.

    I've been going out with this guy for a month now. Ok, we met half a dozen times, and we are still going. I think this may evolve into a serious relationship, or perhaps not, but this is going more towards the relationship way.

    Lets call him M.

    M prefers topping. Actually, I think that he may be top exclusive.

    I am versatile on the other hand.

    I did suggest to top him twice, but he declined and I didn't insist. In one occasion he said "don't dream about it, you can fantasize, but this is as far as we go [he treated me with a specific position]". Since then I assumed M is top exclusive.

    Yesterday, however, while we were at it he did mention something along the lines of him sitting on me, as a bottom. I didn't develop the topic and we stood with the "known basics" for the day. Once again he was top exclusive.

    I'm confronted with three hypothesis:

    1) He is top exclusive. In this case, I ask: I am versatile, and I do have the need to top once in a while. Actually, I have "phases" where I top more than bottom and vice-versa. How do I deal with this?

    2) He is versatile, but just likes topping more. In this case, I think we are fine.

    3) He is building trust to let me top him eventually. I'm leaning towards this one since what he told me yesterday it looks like he is inclined to bottom.


    ---
    Disclaimers, existential crisis and other information that may or may not help with the advice I am asking:
    -----

    About sex: I don't see sex as necessarily involving penetration. I see sex as an intimate connection between two or more parties. But to be fulfilled, physically, it is nice to have a few options. Having said that, I don't think sexual preferences should dictate with whom I want to build a relationship with, specially when the interest to build a relationship could be potentially present in all parties. The exception to this are more extreme kinds of fetishes and sexual addictions that may be or are currently labeled as disorders.

    With that in mind, I admit that sexuality does make a difference in picking a partner, but, once again, it doesn't dictate and should not dictate it. Much less if we are talking about a relationship itself. In this sense, I live in a dilemma where I stand up to my standards - think of it like a personal dogma - while potentially countering how I would act without those standards. i.e: giving up on someone just because X or Y aspect doesn't match my sexual preferences or other topics. I might as well live the rest of my life in celibacy or alone because nobody will ever be perfect and perfection and idealism are distorted and fake notions anyways.

    About communication: M said he doesn't like social media and digital messaging stuff. Most of our talking happens when we are together, but instead of talking we end up doing other things and I am to blame for that too. But we are developing and our talks have been becoming deeper and I'm afraid we are perhaps going to quick on this. Having said that, I didn't ask in a explicit way about his sexual preferences. I think this may push unnecessary insecurities and be in the way of other, more important things, that we need to clarify between ourselves. This goes hand-in-hand with my stance on the sexual topic not being essential to a relationship, although it is something important.

    ---

    TL;DR:

    My current partner seems to be exclusive top. I am versatile and I have needs.

    Is there any way to proceed with maturity without compromising a developing relationship? Is this something that affects a longer term relationship (not necessarily my case)? Non-monogamy may be an option to "fulfill" something like this?
     
    #1 Gleeko0, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  2. Creativemind

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    It can be very hard for an exclusive top/vers relationship to work (or exclusive bottom/vers, top/top, bottom/bottom, etc). Some people refuse to bottom because they think it compromises their masculinity (or some other unhealthy reason), but others just hate the physical feeling regardless of who they're with. It may or may not change. You do need to talk to him about this later on and figure out whether or not he can be flexible. If you're afraid he'll be defensive though, I'd hold off until you can approach him. If he can't be flexible, you may either need to decide if you can go without topping again or just break up and find someone else. Maybe he just needs time?
     
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  3. Twist

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    Is there a reason that you aren't openly discussing this with your partner? These are the kinds of things you -should- be discussing with him.

    Hell, it can be as easy as sitting down with him and saying "I've noticed that you seem to like to top most the time. Would you be open to me penetrating at some point in our time together?"

    I say "penetrating" specifically for a reason. IF he is into any type of Dominance/submission, or BDSM of any kind (actively or fantasizing about it), he may view the words "top" and "bottom" not as who is penetrating who, but as who is the dominant party in your sexual activities. (Not necessarily the same thing, as it is entirely possible to "pitch" and also be submissive at the same time.)
     
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  4. Gleeko0

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    Like I said, communication has been somewhat intermittent and that is bothering me. He said that he is going it deliberately for some reason. Perhaps it has to do with his failed 5 year marriage, the fact that I am younger than him (he is 27, I am 22) and he thinks we may not work together, or that this will be hard, so he is testing the waters?

    Either way, I haven't been pushing too much. I don't want to scare him away by looking obsessed. I'm younger, so looking like I'm an idealist, and blindly in love, may be easier than I conceive...

    To sum it up, I didn't push many sensitive subjects because I think this may over-stress things unnecessarily. This subject specifically is one of them. It may end up not being this much of a deal after all, if he is top-versatile.

    Instead of bringing it up with him I decided to come and share my story here. Plus, this is a problematic topic that I have great interest in. Its just that this never happened with me, I always had the "luck" to end up with mostly versatile guys, or bottom exclusive guys. I'm more top-versatile than bottom-versatile to be honest.

    I will bring it up eventually, in the near future. If we keep going out. As of now, it looks like we will. When this happens I will come here and share the end results

    What if the answer is "I don't like being penetrated" ? The only possible course of action is to break up and look for someone else? Is this how, generally, male gay couples deal with this? I want to discuss this as well.

    In the language we speak (portuguese), the way we briefly talked about "topping and bottoming", left no room for error in this sense, it explicitly means to penetrate or being penetrated. However, I do suspect he has some interest in submission/dominance kind of games, I will eventually get to know this.
     
    #4 Gleeko0, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  5. Creativemind

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    Most people actually are versatile in the gay community, so it can be confusing if you meet an exclusive top or bottom. But it can happen and it requires communication.

    Honestly, I think these things should be discussed way before the relationship is official and before you get attached. This is what I have to do myself. Even though I'm not a gay man, I've still had to describe whether or not I was versatile in certain sex acts or more rigid. If others aren't ok with this, it saves time from someone being disappointed in the near future. If you're only just going out it doesn't hurt anyone to wait, but please make sure you're not waiting too long to have this conversation. Let us know how it goes.
     
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  6. jonnemack

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    Honestamente, é cedo demais pra você discutir essas coisas com quem vc viu pouquíssimas vezes.

    That's the thing. You can only feel confortable to discuss that kind of topic after he trusts you enough or after you are in a relationship. We live among the same kind of people, here you know how hard it is to fit in. It is even harder when even in our local gay community the guys can be SO DAMN SEXIST.

    Honestly, if you are in the eager of being the top and cannot endure a single moment without being the penetrator, then yes you should break up because of you mainly. Like I said, those kind of things you only develop after a considerable amount of time in a relationship. It is a fist fight, in my opinion. If you really think you LOVE him, and he says he is a top exclusive, you either be his bottom for as long as this relationship lasts or you slowly convince him to change his mind ocasionally.

    Either way, be aware of what I told you. You know where we live and we know some gay guys here can be sexist as hell. Be prepared to have some disapointments.
     
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  7. Twist

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    The next question in line would be to ensure he's experienced it before and he isn't just assuming he won't like it.... and then to broach the question on if he'd be willing to try with you and see if he still feels the same.

    In the end, if it turns out that he is not interested in penetration, and refuses to let you try or lets you try and still isn't interested in it afterward, then the options are to stay in the relationship as a bottom, break up with him to find someone more compatible in bed, or consider an open relationship where the needs you and he feel aren't fulfilled in the relationship can be filled elsewhere.

    A note on lack of communication in a relationship. Open, honest communication between partners is an extremely necessary component in a good, healthy relationship. ANY good, healthy relationship. Taking things slow is one thing, and can be a very good thing... but communication is still necessary to make sure the two of you are on the same page.
     
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  8. Gleeko0

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    Yeah, that is the thing that is scaring me. A lot.

    We do have a fine communication dynamic when we are together, in person. But digitally, its just awful. The problem is, for us to meet in person, we have to arrange it digitally. And its sometimes messy, like we agreeing on something in person but not following up digitally and leaving it "in the air".

    I mean, its very ambiguous. I can't ask too much out of this to be honest, I met this guy little more than half a dozen times. But this is definitely something that doesn't help my anxiety. This is my problem, I recognize. I am very anxious and to keep myself in check I have to endure a lot. Simple things like not being clear, or often even excessively clear, about intentions, vulnerabilities and topics, can make me anxious.

    I will endure this for a while, then open up. If no signs of improvement are shown, unfortunately the course of action will be to not pursue anything further with this person, regardless of how interested I may be.
     
    #8 Gleeko0, Oct 15, 2017
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  9. jonnemack

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    Your anxiety only exists because, for whatever reason, you are already thinking of sex if you really only met him a few times. Rapaz, você nem conheceu ele direito, relaxa!

    That's the problem, in a nutshell. I respect everyone that rushes into a sexual relationship with basically a stranger, but you can't now complain about those things because it was your intention to get that much intimacy with a guy in a very short period of time.

    I am sorry to be the pessimistic over here, but you might get your heart broken several times before you realize your anxiety is your own mind's creation. A maioria da comunidade LGBT "padrãozinho" é cheia disso e todos são uns babacas. If you don't inflate your own ego and let some jerks behind, you'll never be in peace with yourself to find true love.

    My stuggle is to refuse many stupid guys because they want to jump into sex very very early and that is making me have a real bad time. But honestly, WHO CARES? In the long term, I might be in a healthy relationship, away from that much toxicity.
     
    #9 jonnemack, Oct 15, 2017
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  10. Gleeko0

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    We had sex a few times. I mean, I was not exactly planning it but it happened and now we've done it enough times that it became "oh well, that's part of it now." At first I thought he just wanted sex. In one sense, me too, I was just there you know, not planning to let this evolve into something else. Then he said he had the interest to meet me more and get to know me, and I said okay, and then we are here.

    Yeah, shit happens.

    I agree in some sense. But he is the complete opposite of "padrãozinho", I'm just not sure if he is not the kind of jerk we are talking about, or if he is.

    I'm on my way to get this answer. I do want to put him against a wall and say "okay, what is happening between us anyways?" but I need the right moment. I mean, we got very intimate very quickly, but this doesn't give us the green card to ask everything so aggressively. We just met.
     
  11. jonnemack

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    That's the thing. Now you have to deal with a "stranger" that you shared much physical intimacy without having the emotional responsability to share some truths. Welcome to modern relationships, honestly. Great, you had sex with a guy before sharing some common interests or intentions. There's nothing wrong about it, you guys can know each other and be great partners, but as far as I know, it might hurt more because if you guys are not compatible, you already were very intimate physically and expectations were created.

    As a supporter of the EC I am ought to tell you my honest opinion. You might have your heart broken because many things you said were misleading, like the online chatting stuff. Do you guys share same interests? Do you guys have common friends? Do your friends know him? Do you know his friends?

    Maybe the right moment to ask some questions is the moment you answer those questions I asked you. Take him our for dinner, for a nice date in a nice place and try to know him better. Ask about his expectations in life without only having to worry about sex. Your concern about sexual preferences in bed only makes me think this might not evolve into a relationship at all.

    As a fellow gay guy who wants all the LGBTQ+ community to develop, I wish you get your answers and know this guy for good before some expectations you already made get broken. Finally, I hope you find a way to ease your mind about those problems, that are SO TINY compared to everyday struggle that it should not be bugging you at all. Sex is an important fact of a relationship, but take it out of what you two guys have, what is left? If the answer is a sound and profound NOTHING, then you might just clear to him you only want him as a sex partner in your own terms or leave him behind to find a guy you really care about, despite sexual attraction.

    Stay strong!
     
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  12. Jacob D

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    Continue to get to know each other better through talking. Maybe start doing other activities that does not involve sex.
     
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  13. JaimeGaye

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    I hope he comes around and allows himself the pleasure of bottoming for you.
    While I am a receptive effeminate I can certainly see your point as I could not stay in a relationship where my partner would want me to top all the time however, I have no issue with topping my top on those occasions he wishes to play on the other side of the fence.
     
  14. Gleeko0

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    Like I said, shit happens. I didn't expect this to evolve into something "more" than just sex. And I felt it, and he felt it too, on the very first day we went out. We just had this "click". It happens.
    Yes, we do have a fair amount of things in common. He is a teacher, and I'm only one or two years away from becoming a lecturer. He is academic, and researcher and so am I. The topics he works with are somewhat related to some I have been working with too. Sometimes I introduce a topic that I don't usually expect people to follow up and it ends up becoming a heated debate (healthy debate) and a deep conversation between me and him about the theme (like international politics, gender, education, etc). Definitely, there is more than just sex in there.

    We don't have common friends. But he showed me pictures of his friends, he talked about them, the activities they do together. I felt this was like "opening the door" to me. So I did the same. If you are going out with someone and it starts to get somewhat serious, its interesting to know the life of this person outside the bubble created by you and that person, right?

    I was not going to post anything about this, outside the original topic, but since I'm quoting you, I decided I will follow up.

    Its funny you just wrote this. Between the time I posted this and the time you guys answered, we did go out. But today was not "only sex", as it was the previous days. Not that we didn't talk or did other things the other times. But today,specifically, we went for a date afterwards and it was very productive. In fact, I'm impressed at how this is developing.

    We talked about our expectations, what we really want from this. None of us threw the relationship idea as an objective, we are getting to know each other, only, for the time being. And that is great! We talked about many sensitive things, some of our insecurities and all.

    Yes, we are doing this the other way around, but it is not looking this bad after all. He explicitly said he is interested in getting to know me better. I said same! I have to admit I'm genuinely impressed because I thought he maybe didn't want to pursue anything further than going out and having sex a few times here and there. While a serious relationship certainly is not the central goal, for none of us, the circumstances are here for us to develop something. I'm looking forward "discovering" him, and he is looking forward the same in me. That is all, and its enough to be honest.

    On communication, like I stated previously, he hates texting. So he calls. Today he called me, and I felt "more intimate" to be called. I don't mind calls, I'm just not used to it. People usually text nowadays. I hate building expectations, but I feel that perhaps we will be less intermittent in terms of communication after the kind of day we had today. I'm much less insecure about it at least, and this is not about expectations, its about myself.

    As for the top-bottom part, we didn't talk about it, I didn't want to bring it up because I thought the other things we talked about were much more important for the reasons I already stated in this post.

    I thought about the top-bottom issue better. I came to the consideration that, while I am explicitly non-monogamous and so is he, I decided that I am not going unilaterally stop a potentially nice thing from developing just because of something we do or don't do in bed. This is further supported by the potential of being non-monogamous and this is applied to both of us.

    Of course many may disagree but If everything else is going relatively smoothly, I think that's the lesser of the problems.
     
    #14 Gleeko0, Oct 15, 2017
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  15. Gleeko0

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    That is a possible solution.

    If the top-bottom thing becomes an issue in a hypothetical future with this person. Check: