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State of the art of the "born this way" concept?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by idunnome, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. idunnome

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    What is the general opinion scientific and otherwise about sexual orientation "choice"? before investiganting i thought that sexual orientation was by birth and then you discovered throught your life but... there is this sexual fluidity concept that kinda goes against that? Mostly got confused because a video of Dr. Lisa DIamond about it... i mean is it true that woman can change sexual orientation throught life like she says? or only bisexual woman that had relationships with men(or woman) and settled with a woman(or men)... Is real sexuality change or just discovery?

    Is the disproving of the "born this way" feared not because of its scientifical validity but because the political stuff that surrounds it? i mean if sexuality is that fluid could lead to a resurge on conversion therapy after all... but what is it? what is the truth? Im going crazy over here.
     
  2. Chiroptera

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    Lisa Diamond is known for the deep problems in her work, because it is not replicated by anyone else, and nobody credible from the science community takes her seriously. Affirming that something is true but not actually presenting proof and evidence that it is true proves nothing. Extrapolating biological concepts to explain fluidity and change in orientation without solid biological evidence is problematic.

    All solid evidence we have nowadays point to sexual orientation being determined before birth, and probably determined through epigenetic factors.

    It isn't feared. Science doesn't work like that. If someone proves that we aren't born this way, then that's ok. But, as far as I know, no one has provided solid evidence about that being true, while many have pointed out that it's quite safe to affirm that the orientation is determined before birth.

    It's not about political stuff (after all, even if we weren't born this way, being LGBT+ would continue not being a problem). It's about the lack of solid biological evidence pointing out to the fact that we aren't born this way. Diamond hasn't provided this evidence as far as I know.
     
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  3. idunnome

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    Thanks mr Don Ramon. I see, i thought it was proved. What are good scientific and proved references about sexuality that i can dig into?
     
  4. Chip

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    There's a lot out there in the peer-reviewed literature in the psychology field. Some of it is junk that I swear I have no idea how it is getting past peer review, while other research is pretty solid and robust. My best suggestion if you're looking for general information is to dig into Medline and simply look at some journal articles (assuming you have access to an academic library either through your public library or an academic institution's online collection.) One of the keys is to see whether findings one person is reporting are replicated and validated by other researchers at different institutions (and ideally, in different peer reviewed journals.) That's really the best standard for reliable information.
     
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  5. Broccoli

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    To add to this, filtering for review papers is often the best way to start a search as this will give you some syntheses of findings and frameworks, rather than trying to delve straight into primary sources without much idea of the structures and viewpoints to hang the results off.
     
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  6. Chip

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    Really excellent and valuable point. Saves a lot of time, and then you can pull the papers cited in the metastudies that pique your interest. I've often found myself going down (interesting) rabbit holes by looking up papers cited in other papers.
     
  7. Joe Ray

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    Well, fluid sexuality can still be backed up by biological factors. Primarily the fact that women are more likely to be sexually fluid (as being female is obviously biological, its connection to sexuality supports the idea of a biological cause). This biological factor simply makes it less likely to have a stable sexuality. Biology is really complex, and just because something can change doesn't mean it isn't biological. Take for example eye or hair color. Both can change throughout your lifetime, but it doesn't make it any less biological.
     
  8. BiGemini87

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    Most of the time when I see people talking about sexual fluidity, they fall into one of two categories:

    1) Those regurgitating what they heard some random person say on the internet,

    Or

    2) Those referring to people on the bisexual/pansexual spectrum.

    Monosexuality isn't fluid according to any credible research I've seen. Heterosexuals and homosexuals may experiment or may go through a period of believing they are one or the other before finally realizing and accepting their orientation; bisexuals/pansexuals however can commonly go through shifts in attraction where they're attracted to one more than the other, depending on the types of people they are surrounded by (varying from person to person, as some bi/pan people are attracted to multiple types, while others have shorter lists).

    The long and the short of it? Until there is credible proof to the contrary, I will continue believing in orientation being decided prior to birth.
     
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  9. Chip

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    For the most part I'm inclined to agree. The only piece I'm not sure of is whether there's actual fluidity among those in the bi/pan spectrum, or whether the inherent nature of being bi/pan simply makes them more openminded. The "depending on the types of people they are surrounded by" would tend to reinforce the idea that whatever shift in attraction happens is more in the realm of perception and cognition rather than actual fluidity.

    Also, I'm not 100% certain on "before birth" as to the point of fixation of sexual orientation, but I certainly think there are traits that are present prior to birth. These may be influenced by very early-in-life experiences; one researcher-clinician I'm familiar with used to say "Sexual orientation is fixed either prior to birth or very early in life, but certainly before age 5" and I think that's a reasonable approximation of my current perspective on that.
     
  10. BiGemini87

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    That's actually a good point; it might not actually be fluidity on the part of bisexuals/pansexuals, but merely the appearance of it depending on circumstances? It would certainly make a lot more sense. I'd actually be interested in reaing the studies pertaining to sexuality/orientation; sounds like it would be pretty informative. :slight_smile: If you don't mind, who was the researcher? I don't mind Googling the study myself, to save you the trouble. ^^
     
  11. Chip

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    I wish I could remember. I believe the quote about "prior to birth or certainly before age 5" came from a researcher/clinician who was talking about sexual orientation in male sexual trauma survivors (a counter perspective to those who were claiming that abuse set them to homosexual orientation.)
     
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