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Social Justice Warriors?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by davidfreckelton, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. davidfreckelton

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    I've always wondered where the line is between just standing up for what's right and being an SJW? Is being an SJW necessarily a bad thing?
    I'm curious because at my school if someone says something like being gender fluid exists they get shutdown by being called an SJW and or worse (i.e. faggot or other creative insults).
     
  2. AgenderMoose

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    Okay, so some people when ACCUSING others of being SJWs are too far.

    But like. SJWs are like...people who see this

    [​IMG]

    And say the character is oversexualized. I mean I guess I could see where they were coming from, but I know that's not the case.

    That's probably a bad example, but. There is a line. It's kinda like the extreme on that end. Hard to describe off the top of my head
     
    #2 AgenderMoose, Nov 5, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  3. AwesomGaytheist

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    They've ruined college campuses, they've ruined football, they've succeeded in screwing teams and universities for their mascots, they've convinced the Obama administration to redefine rape to include consensual drunk sex and had hundreds of innocent college students expelled from school over a made-up hoax about campus rape, and worst of all, they love to use their favorite weapon against you: their lawyers.

    I can think of a lot better things to be upset about than microaggressions or the fact that somebody might not agree with me. For many people, college pulls them to the left. For me it made me more of a pragmatist and dragged me back to the center.
     
  4. Godless

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    I think the line between SJW and reasonable person is how they react when they hear disagreement. If you hear someone say, genderfluid does not exist, then what is your reaction? If it is to call them a bigot and start screaming at them, then it is safe to say you are a SJW. An SJW is someone who thinks difference of opinion is bigotry. That is a pretty safe bet. Whatever happened to having thick skin and respecting freedom of expression?
     
  5. Opheliac

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    While there definitely are people who get up in arms over non-issues, or else get offended on behalf of groups they don't belong to who never asked them for help, and this is a very valid problem, I'm not a fan of the term SJW simply because it's often used by bigots to dismiss anyone who is doing actual work related to social issues. I feel it's similar to "feminazi". There are certainly radical feminists who hate all men and never consider any other points of view, but the word is used to trivialise anything related to women's social issues, because people use it as an umbrella term rather than a word for a specific group of people. Same thing with SJW. It's supposed to mean one specific thing, but so many people use it differently that I feel it's kinda lost its meaning.
     
  6. Godless

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    Being a Social Justice Warrior is entirely and completely a bad thing. Had to make sure I got that out there. Freedom of expression is the most important human right. The most offensive speech needs to be the most protected speech. That is not to say it is good, just censorship is tyranny.
     
  7. SkyWinter

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    What do you mean when you say "standing up for what is right"? Are we talking about what is morally right? Aesthetically right?
     
  8. Austin

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    You can tell when someone is being frivolous.
     
  9. Kira

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    I'd say it's someone who essentially corrupts valid causes by leading them too far astray and going off the deep end.

    A good example is how thoroughly it's tainted feminism, to the point where about half aren't even abiding by it's own definition. What it does is making it so topics of equality are essentially thrown far out of proportion and the original topic is no longer taken seriously.

    Person A: The way women are represented in gaming could use a few obvious adjustments, just literally take any male character and change the gender. Boom. Done. No metal underwear as armor required. (Addressing a flaw and presenting a possible solution)

    Person B: The way women are represented in gaming could use a few obvious adjustments, like making all the dim-witted male scum bow down and accept her clear superiority. Men have ruled this world for far too long, and it's time to get even. (Addressing a flaw, albeit in the wrong way and repeating mistakes instead of erasing them)

    That's at least my perception of the matter.
     
  10. Quem

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    I completely agree with these statements from Kira and Godless.

    Drawing a line between those who stand up for others and SJWs is not that always that easy, though. Someone could, occasionally, dismiss (valid) criticism and distract from the real issue. What would that person be? An "incidental/occasional SJW"? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  11. 0Marionette0

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    I've gotta say that in my opinion SJWs do more harm than good for the world. They protest against free speech, the exact thing that gives them the right to protest like that and gives them the freedom to identify as genderfluid or whatever odd thing they want. They also have expanded the definition of racism and sexism so far that pretty much anything can be considered it. Not to mention they are often sexist and racist themselves. Finally, they alienate the LGBT community, enforcing these "rules" for behaving around them and how they need special treatment while also saying we're just like everyone else. If they didn't severely lack in self-awareness and actually treated people equally, maybe I wouldn't mind them so much. I don't think they should be bullied like you mentioned above for this at all, thats horrible. :icon_sad: And it's not like I dislike SJWs themselves, I just dislike the ideology and actions they take.
     
    #11 0Marionette0, Nov 6, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  12. Chiroptera

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    Most likely, those people simply don't know what they are talking about. Being pro-equality doesn't mean you are a SJW.

    To me, SJWs are those people who want to fix the world by violence (even if not physical, most of the time) and hate, instead of education and peace.

    As Godless said:

    There are many people who are full of prejudice not because they are inherently evil, but because they aren't well informed. In that case, yelling at them and pointing fingers will only make them think they have proven their point true ("look at those LGBT people! They are all violent and aggressive!"). The best way to deal with people is through education.

    I was once giving a lesson about genetics and human behavior, and we started discussing gender roles and prejudice. One of the students said: "I would never let my son play with a doll, because that's wrong". Many teachers would simply ignore him or laugh at him (if the teacher is pro-equality, of course. There are many bigots in the profession, unfortunately). Instead, i answered: "Ok, i respect your opinion. But why do you think it is wrong to play with a certain object just because you are a boy/girl?". He answered, i answered back, questioning him to make him think, but always in a calm and respectful tone. The discussion continued and, in the end, he understood that what he said before could be wrong (of course, it is a process: A single lesson will hardly change someone, but, at least, i made the student think a bit more about what he said. With time and patience, he can change his mind).

    What i'm trying to say is: SJWs think that everyone that don't think exactly like them are enemies. And, indeed, there are enemies, like politicians who try to stop the fight for equality all the time. However, not everyone is an enemy: Some people (and, i believe, most people) are just ignorant. In that case, throwing rocks at them will not help: We need to educate people.

    Is it a simple task? No. Can we achieve quickly results? No, it is a long process. But, through education, peace and equality are possible. Fighting violence with violence isn't the answer.
     
  13. Godless

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    What Chiropatra said. The only thing I can add is moving forward is looking promising. I came into the whole SJW discussion with a confused opinion. I knew nothing about it and I couldn't understand the whole anti-feminism claim that they hate men. That was three months ago. Now I am convinced that conservatives actually have a good governing philosophy. They just have a bad grasp of the facts. LGBT rights are moving forward, not as quickly as we would all like. But change is slow. I am quite confident when I am old and all the generations above me are all passed away, the world will be a very friendly place.
     
  14. Cinis

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    This. People who try to censor others opinions from the start and call them racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/you get the trend, just so they don't have to listen to any opinion that could oppose their own, don't need to discuss anything and can keep living in their happy fairytale world in which they are obviously right about everything and western society is evil.

    What is equally bad though are people who dismiss other's comments by calling them SJWs, oversensitive snowflakes or other synonyms. This is also a form of censorship and not listening to someone else just to ensure that oneself is right in every aspect.


    To sum it up: censorship is always a bad and ignorant thing and there is no such thing as one"right" opinion since most things aren't black and white but a large gray block that should invite discussion instead of close-mindedness.
     
  15. Cedar

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    Am I the only one that thinks of this when they hear Social Justice Warriors?
    [​IMG]

    Social Justice Warriorrrrrs! Come out and plaaayyyy!
     
  16. SillyGoose

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    People like to pin non offensive terms onto people as insult.. Is every over the top woman a feminist? Of corse not, but the internet thinks otherwise.. Is every liberal person who has strong believes on equality an SJW? Of corse not, but these terms in my opinion aren't bad..

    I don't consider myself an SJW, but I have strong political and social believes on breaking gender stereotypes, equality and other controversial issues whilst being very far left on the political spectrum..
    I don't believe in micro aggressions but I believe the people can be "triggered" by certain themes that they find deeply uncomfortable..
    Not every hiker travels the same path. Not every 'SJW' is going to be an uptight privileged asshole...
     
  17. Aussie792

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    Obviously there are some people whose commitment to social causes strays into irritating idiocy, but it's important not to censor yourself to avoid being called a social justice warrior. It is wholly designed not to be an objective descriptor of silliness but as a way to shut people down when you disagree with them.

    Because that silencing easily comes to those who decide that any criticism of racism, sexism or other forms of social inequalities is hysteria from silly radical lefties they can brush off and which automatically doesn't apply to them. The term is a way for people to protect themselves from ever being criticised for their attitudes, because they can always brush it aside by saying it's 'just a social justice warrior' attacking them.

    That attitude is how four in ten American men believe Trump has 'some' or 'a lot' of respect for women. It's a way to absolve oneself of responsibility by accusing the accusers of being vapid and irrationally angry - and it's often a tone that decries women who are offended with the same attitude suffragettes were called 'hysterical' and were told how good they had it.

    Yes, I'm sure we all get annoyed by unreasonable social media activism. But the term itself is designed as a way to stop discussion in exactly the same way as refusing to talk to somebody because you believe they are racist does. And given accusations of being a social justice warrior often caricature even the most sophisticated, engaged and patient advocates as that sort of person, the use of the term is essentially a silencing tool that creates a polarised society in which nobody is willing to engage with the other side.

    For that reason, I suggest using the term sparingly or not at all.
     
  18. Gunsmoke

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    I totally agree with you.

    Using my own definitions, an SJW is somebody who makes issues out of, well, nothing. Like if somebody says "making jokes about big noses is offensive because it has anti-semitic undertones". Well, sure, if you're explicitely making the joke about Jewish people then yes, that would be pretty racist, but if you're just saying something about big noses in general and some random person, most likely not a Jew, starts in, it's like - the fuck?
    Also, SJWs don't let people make mistakes. You fuck up once and you're on a million call-out posts and you're "cancelled", no matter how small a mistake it was.

    But as I said, I agree with Opheliac - so many people use the term "SJW" to shut down legitimate arguments that it has lost its meaning. Like, if you say you want LGBTQ+ or racially diverse students in a game, or you want the developer to stop sexualising the underage characters, and you get told "shut up SJW! Are you triggered? K e k", that's definitely the wrong use of the term.
     
  19. JC9715

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    Oh boy... They lowkey drive me crazy honestly, I don't really have a lot to say about them other than I wish they would stop making issues out of nothing.