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So was I bisexual then, or shift to it recently?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by DecentOne, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. DecentOne

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    Ok, those who know me on EC remember when I first joined I thought I was here as a straight ally.

    Then in 2018 I went to a therapist and clarified some things, based on a sudden shift of my fantasies to same-sex situations (whereas females had been the focus since adolescence).

    I’m posting this in the Later-in-Life section rather than in the sexual orientation or coming out sections. I’m more than half way through my lifespan, married, with adult children grown up and out of the house.

    That shift in fantasy and orientation was unexpected (I know, I’m a late bloomer!), but fully embraced by me.

    I’ve pretty much said that perhaps I would have identified bisexuality earlier in my life if people had used the word (mostly folks talked about “gay OR straight).

    But I was tossing some old stuff, and I came across papers I’d saved from a workshop I’d taken years ago (1992). It was a workshop to help straight allies know more about LGB stuff (I don’t see “T” in the materials), the existence of PFLAG, etc. There is a whole folder of papers on bisexuality, a directory of bisexual support groups compiled by Robyn Ochs (“a service of the East Coast Bisexual Network”) and a poor photocopy of “Using the Klein Scale to Teach about Sexual Orientation.” So I did learn about bisexuality, or at least got the handouts. I never filled out the Klein Scale, so perhaps I was just gathering materials to be a useful ally.

    I reflected with my wife that I don’t think any of this stuff uncovered any bisexual awareness in me at the time. Am I suppressing a memory? I don’t think so, as I recall one or two other aspects of the overall workshop. So now I know I knew about bisexuality at least by that point in my life, but thought I was straight. My life rewards that assessment of being straight: Given my relationship with my wife, never having been aroused by a guy, that would make sense.

    And it was pretty clear I was not homophobic (otherwise I wouldn’t have wanted to go to this workshop to be a better ally). There would be no reason to suppress bisexual awareness of myself. My family would not have rejected me. I would not have lost my job. My religion would not have rejected me either.

    This is the tricky part - because this old file of papers could have “taken me back” to some inkling of bisexuality, but it doesn’t. The workshop didn’t set me off on a path of self discovery. So was I not bisexual then, even though I am bisexual now?

    As I said, I’m very accepting of being bisexual, very much glad for every opportunity to be out. I’m just curious because my previous explanation of being unaware until recently just doesn’t fit anymore. This collection of old materials puts me back into the “I was straight, now I’m bisexual - it was a shift in late life” mindset.
     
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  2. LostInDaydreams

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    It could also be that you were completely oblivious. I was with regards to being gay.

    In retrospect I can see that there were some fairly obvious signs, and like you, it’s not like I avoided exposure to LGBT+ things. I studied history at university, including the history of gender and sexuality. I wrote essays on it and delivered presentations. I didn’t hide my interest in it, as all my friends knew it was likely what my essays, etc. would be about. But, at no point during reading all those books and journals, did I think that I was anything other than straight.
     
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  3. DecentOne

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    Thanks for sharing that part of your experience @LostInDaydreams , it could be I was oblivious.

    One of the things I remember from that workshop was something of the coming out stories shared by presenters. I have always liked coming out stories. I thought it was because I very much like people being able to be fully themselves, and it always sounded somewhat heroic. Maybe all this “academic” study “about others” was a way of preparing me for this at a future stage of life. In the meantime I was helpful in being an ally. I don’t like thinking of myself as oblivious though. I like thinking of myself as a fairly reflective person, who is aware of self and others.

    I was hoping the materials would trigger an “ah ha” moment, helping things fit together well. It didn’t have any emotional tug to it though, no inkling that “this shows you were thinking about this yourself”. There are other things in my past that I can reinterpret with my newfound embrace of being bisexual, but this does not seem to be one of them. There was a workshop/training a couple years ago where I noticed quite a bit of energy rising in me, an urgency surrounded the LGBTQ topics. I don’t remember any of that from 1992.
     
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  4. Nickw

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    @DecentOne

    I always find your posts so interesting. That is that you discover your bisexuality later in life with such limited clues. It does almost seem like, for you, it appeared from nowhere.

    I'm not discounting your experience when I comment here. But, is it possible that you diminished your same sex attractions because they did not seem important or worthy of further exploration so you ignored them? I know that I always could be attracted by the underwear ad showing an attractive male. But, I would turn the catalogue page (really dating myself here) and see the women. I could apply more importance to how the women made me feel. I think I did this intentionally. The thought of having intimacy with a woman was the direction I was supposed to go. The direction that society demanded of me. And, it felt really good to fantasize about what I saw.

    Even though, after a time, I recognized that I did have an attraction to men, I considered it a kink. After I became sexually active, I think I went a decade with out any attraction to men. I don't remember any time during my thirties that I was turned on by a man. Maybe I just denied it. But, there was so much I needed to do with my life and my marriage that I didn't need the interruption.

    Are we, as bisexuals, capable of completely compartmentalizing our attractions? Or, did you really change?

    My thought is that I can be totally consumed with the thought of either a man or a woman. Certainly, I was that way when I met my wife and, recently, when I met my boyfriend. So, if I can switch back and forth with such clarity, who's to say that the switch might not get thrown at all until later in life for someone else? I don't know...just my thoughts...
     
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  5. DecentOne

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    Thanks for your thought provoking reply @Nickw ,
    I know that my attraction to girls was rewarded by peers (society) in middle and high school. When something is reinforced, it becomes stronger. I’d been told by teachers when I was young not to keep switching hands as I wrote - I was doing it because my hands got tired. I think of that in relation to bisexuality. Only one desk in each room had an inkwell on the left (no, I’m not so old that I used inkwells in school, but the school was that old!). Much easier to be a right handed student. I have wondered if I would have been more bisexual as a young man if I’d had reinforcement of that side of myself. I’m lucky that I had friends and family who didn’t act homophobic, so I didn’t think it was wrong if I noticed a guy from time to time. It was just a side thing (I wouldn’t have called it kink in my case, not sure I had a concept of that. My counselor called the evidence weak that I was bisexual as a young person, from what I was recalling to him in our sessions. I’ve remembered a bit more over the past couple years, so maybe I could say that early evidence was more than weak when I really look at it now with fresh perspective. Still, how is it in 1992, with literature in my hands about bisexuality, why didn’t it stir some self awareness?

    Yeah, it does feel like I shifted.

    There are a couple people in my life who might be able to call me on my obliviousness, if it really is that. My best friend from high school, who ended up coming out right after getting out into job and adulthood is one. We knew each other pretty well. The other might be one of my college roommates, as his girlfriend admitted to me that she and he thought maybe I was gay, and that it would be ok if I was. (But I liked women, and thought she was quite hot, so easily dismissed it). As I’ve said before, if either of them had asked if I liked some guys at least a little, on top of fantasizing about women all the time, and then pointed out it was bisexuality, maybe I would not have so easily dismissed it. But again 1992 is after all that, and it didn’t budge my self perception. And both those guys are out of touch with me now, one of them I have no clue how to reach (no one does), and the other never got back to me when I tried several years ago.

    At the moment my bisexuality just feels dead. I’m not hanging out with the LGBTQ family, or anyone, because of COVID-19. No pride events are happening. I’m going to talk with my counselor about that this week. But I’m still (literally) flying the rainbow flag, and coming out to more of our friends.
     
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  6. Nickw

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    @DecentOne

    It looks like maybe there were some indications, early on, of your same sex attractions. There are some parallels in our history. I too had a best friend who came out after college. I think you are a few years younger than I. So, maybe this is different for you. But, I could never “check” the “yep gay” boxes when I was young. I was 22 before I learned that there was such a thing called bisexual (learned it when a bi guy wanted to fool around).

    I also was a kid who had a deep romantic notion of love/sex. I never fantasized during masturbation. I sought only relief. But, I fell deeply in love with this cute girl that I just obsessed over all the way through junior high school and high school. I could see nothing else but how I wanted to be with her. So, that consumed a big part of my attractions. But, even with that going on I would feel this draw to a part of a male (lower stomach) and the feeling was like hunger. It was just too big a reach to build on that attraction and create a desire for sex with a guy.

    I know you are on this search for self awareness. It seems like at this point the later in life man you are understands and accepts himself. You may never understand the origins of your sexuality. Maybe that’s OK? This is just a random thought. Are you concerned that the “shift” might go “full gay”?

    The CV thing has put a cramp on my journey too. I had no Pride this year. I’ve been unable to hang out with my gay group. I feel this strange pull to just hide out. It’s hard to grow right now isn’t it?
     
  7. DecentOne

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    My wife is fearful that I will shift to gay. I don’t think I will.

    Yes I accept myself, I’m embracing my bisexuality. And I accept that I may not get answers about my shift to bisexual. My first therapist didn’t think it was important to have those answers, or not as important as dealing with my wife’s emotional roller coaster ride or planning how I’d set goals. I’ve enjoyed looking back over my life and finding more about myself, with that therapist or my current one (or on my own).
     
  8. dirtyshirt84

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    Hi decent one

    Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I wonder if that the fact you were at an LGBT workout, even at that time as an ally was a sign in itself. The fact you also like coming out stories.

    I used to go to some club nights which were very gay friendly and I remember commenting to my friends at the time that I really enjoyed them. I guess I felt at home there. Now I know why...haha. At the time I would have considered myself mostly straight.

    I think it’s common to surround yourself with gay culture and gay friends even when you haven’t realised your sexuality yet.

    I suppose it is also an intense attraction to someone of the same sex that will make most of us consciously aware for the first time. Perhaps you just never met a man you felt that way about back then?

    As Nick says, as bisexuals (Im Bi too), I think it might be possible to compartmentalise our attractions at times.
     
  9. dirtyshirt84

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    Sorry for all the typos :slight_smile:
     
  10. DecentOne

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    Thanks dirtyshirt84,
    I am glad I felt comfortable going to the workshop back in the 90’s. And my being seen as a straight ally really made a difference in past decades, to those who didn’t see enough allies, and for folks who hadn’t thought about being one. It gives me a warm feeling to look back. I don’t know that it was a sign of anything other than my lack of homophobia, but if it was motivated subconsciously by some sort of inner awareness that I was making room for future bisexual me in the world, that’s ok too (sounds very pragmatic, less noble).

    I remember having a crush (squish?) on a very nice guy back in middle school, and telling him. He rebuffed me nicely. I haven’t had a catalyst as an adult. This bisexual awareness just seems to be emerging from within.
     
  11. Nickw

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    @DecentOne

    If you did make advancements to another guy back in Junior High, this could mean you were, somewhat, aware of your sexuality. On the other hand, most of the guys I knew when I was younger, did some experimenting with other guys. It seemed every sleep over and camping trip I was on involved some sort of sexual play even though it was pretty limited. This just created more confusion and denial for me. I wonder if that was also your experience?

    Maybe things changed during the time you grew up vs when I did. I think you are at least a half decade younger than I (I'm 61). The subject of being a friend to the LGBT community would never have come up for me. I didn't even know it existed. So, that in itself, may indicate more than an unvested interest on your part to be aware and involved with this group?

    You mentioned a catalyst for your sexuality as an adult. I was a pretty happy, non-practicing, in the closet, bisexual for decades. I knew I had attractions and fantasies but I never found them important. They were never generated by a real guy so they were easily dismissed. That changed overnight when a bartender I was attracted to propositioned me one night. It was a profound experience. Immediately, there was a floodgate of emotions and memories brought up. That some of my relationships with friends when I was younger had an element of sexual desire to them. There was no denying that my same sex attractions were pretty defining even though I was able to set them aside.

    When you look back on your friendships with other guys, with total honesty, can you say that you didn't want another level of bonding that might have included sexual intimacy?
     
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  12. DecentOne

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    I didn’t have any experimentation with guys, even with younger. One guy who said he loved me might have had some pre-pubescent fun with me if he had been brave enough to ask (when he declared his love, as more than a friend, I asked if he wanted to kiss me, but he said no). I think in an early post here on EC I said I wasn’t ever at risk for STI’s, not even Mono!

    My best friend, if I remember correctly, asked me if I wanted to practice kissing, to be ready for girls. I gave it a moment’s thought and said no. I didn’t want to. It wasn’t a bad thing to consider, but I wasn’t feeling any desire to do it. We shared everything together, but never crossed that line. There was the guy in the public bathroom, who I thought was acting like a bouncer or lookout, I was too young (early teens?) to know what was going on, but now it is clear to me there were a couple guys in stalls having sex. It was suggested I join in, but as I had no clue about what was going on (and not wanting to look uncool by asking) I declined. But I remember he seemed like a good guy, and fit his pants well. There was a guy in college that I hung out with a lot, he was very important in my life, but I didn’t think that was sexual. After college there was a guy I hung out with, and he wanted to date - I just wanted to be friends, I enjoyed his company. But if I hadn’t been in the midst of figuring out my dating status with a couple really nice women at the time I might have been open to the idea.

    Pretty mild stuff I guess.

    I have yet to have anything like your bartender incident.
     
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  13. JessNC

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    Hi, DecentOne and all. Thanks for your posts. My journey is similar to yours, DecentOne. Always with a girl and moved into a long term hetero marriage. Ally involved in gay rights activities and have had a good number of close lesbian friends. Do academic work in the gender and sexuality arena. No awareness of same sex attraction in my youth but hetero sex in my college and 20's was fun--and not infrequent--but not very satisfying. I identified as bi and later queer but never felt the need to act in non-straight activities. A good relationship that lead to marriage, kids, careers, life, kept me engaged for decades. Now, though, I have been expressing my "bisexuality" for some time (and some gender identity issues) and examining my past. Social norms, the presence of AIDS, etc., perhaps short-circuited my natural curiosities? Or maybe I moved on the things that mattered most to me at the time? Starting to think through my sexual history and fantasies.....
     
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  14. OnTheHighway

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    Why does this concern you and why are you establishing a boundary? Shouldn't you just be allowing yourself to figure out what your truth is regardless of where that ultimately takes you?
     
  15. DecentOne

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    My wife said today she thinks it has to do with mid-life reexamination.

    Definitely AIDS era was scary. A friend wanted to do something with me after college, I was not interested, but also I remember being afraid because people still didn’t know much about AIDS and how you catch it. I gave him a big hug and sent him back to his bed. I think he was surprised at my non reaction.
     
  16. DecentOne

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    ?Boundary? Are you asking about why I don’t think I am Gay?
    I’m not too hung up on labels. I am ok with myself being a loving being, and I learned more about myself as the male fantasies came to the forefront. I know I was focused on women all through my life, and got physical reactions to women, and still am intimate with my wife. I don’t think I fit the description of Gay - it isn’t a boundary, just a sense of self and knowledge of my history and body.

    Or is your question about the shift? If you say more, perhaps that will help me articulate better.
     
  17. OnTheHighway

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    well, you answered by stating your not hung up on labels, so I assume the comment is irrespective of what your wife thinks?
     
  18. DecentOne

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    Yes, I’m fine with who I am, and what I discover about myself. The 1992 conference doesn’t quite fit the “some part of this was there all the time” narrative I’d been building, so that’s why this thread got started.

    I am sorry that the person I love and chose to be with has trouble with it. I honor our love, and I am monogamous, so it is just the sexual orientation itself which is a cause of trouble, and the fear that my shift could happen again and then I’d be gay. She doesn’t have trouble with anyone else who is LGBTQ. I gave her control over the coming out process from the beginning, because of her fear and shame over my self-discovery. Recently she brought up that I’d worn my pride wristband to a family wedding last year (I wear it every day), even though she told me I was not to come out to her family. I didn’t mention it to family, and most of the time it could not be seen under my dress shirt sleeve. Before the wedding she had said she was going to bring up my bisexuality to siblings if the moment was right and she was alone with them privately, but even though those moments presented themselves she didn’t feel comfortable to go through with her plan. But she did finally tell them a few months ago, and while it was uncomfortable for her to “admit” she has a bisexual husband, I’m still completely accepted (I knew I would be) and they are not shaming her or gossiping (I knew they wouldn’t). But my wearing my wristband was still bothering her, still on her mind a year later. On the other hand, with counseling, she has now chosen to put a rainbow pride magnet on our cars as of this summer. Things get better, but not in a straight line.
     
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  19. OnTheHighway

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    Did your shame also give you reason to give her such control? Sometimes it is easier to punt on the tough initiatives when we can project the decision onto someone else. Not suggesting you are doing this, but its one thing to decide for ourselves when and how we come out to others and it is another to give control of such a personal matter to another person even if that person is your spouse.

    I essentially gave my wife that control over my life for almost 20 years. I thought I was doing the right thing. I didn’t want to hurt her, but all the time I was continuing to hurt myself. I found false comfort knowing I could use her happiness as justification to avoid my own truth. But my truth ultimately caught up with me.
     
  20. DecentOne

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    I hear you, I get it. I don’t want to hurt my wife. I was “surprised,” at the very least, the way my wife reacted and how long her emotional roller coaster ride was lasting. If I had it to do over again I’d still do it. I have to be me, and I’m not hiding me, and especially not from her. I came out to her immediately (within days or weeks of figuring this out with my therapist). My giving her the control over further coming out made our home a closet, and changed my relationship to this house. It was a big sacrifice, and it hurt. But I was patient, and I was right - she came round to letting me be out and proud, though it took 18 months or a year, and even though she reversed herself at one point which was even more painful to me.

    You asked about my shame. No shame about my orientation. I was not raised to be ashamed of whoever I am.

    I simply do not understand my wife’s position. She is upset that I don’t understand her feelings, her shame, how my orientation affects her life. But I will not be shamed. It does not stick.
     
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