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Slight left turn

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Inlife88, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. Inlife88

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    Hi all, I had been wondering if I am gay and I got my answer from here. Now I am wondering about transitioning. I have always envied the ladies. I love how they have different fashions, are more open, and can help one another out. What are my options

    Peace and Love
     
  2. Chip

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    Before you give thought to transitioning, let's discuss this. I think you might be jumping the gun.

    People who are trans generally have a very, very strong sense that they are not in the right body. Their body does not feel like it belongs to them, and that they are stuck inside a suit that doesn't fit, doesn't work. Some are literally disgusted by the parts of their body that don't conform with how they believe they are (a trans woman might, for example, be utterly grossed out by her penis.)

    On the other hand, there are many gay men who are fascinated and enamored with fashion, beauty, aesthetics. Think of how many male fashion designers, hair stylists, makeup artists, costume designers, etc. are gay. Many more gay men find that they get along fabulously with women and have many female BFFs. (Indeed, one of the tip-offs of a closeted poof in high school is a guy who has a million female friends but few male friends... think Kurt from Glee.) These folks are happy to have penises, feel comfortable in their bodies, identify with the things that make their self-perception consistent with how their body is.

    So those things are part and parcel, for many gay men, of being who they are. It has absolutely nothing to do with being trans. Unless, of course, those things are also coincident with the feelings that you're stuck in the wrong body.

    One of the downsides of the current visibility of transpeople and gender variance is there isn't adequate education and explanation about what it really means. And, of course, there are the "let everyone be the individual they are and let them express in whatever way they want" folks who discourage any sort of questioning of whatever whim or passing thought someone may have. This is in no way to devalue or discourage individuals who see themselves as trans from doing what the need to do to feel comfortable with themselves, but only to suggest that some critical thinking and analysis of one's situation is worthwhile in these situations.

    With the above said which of the first two paragraphs more closely identifies with how you see and feel about yourself? That will give you a clue as to where you lie on that spectrum.
     
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  3. Inlife88

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    I have never really felt comfortable in my own skin. I always wish I was someone else
     
  4. Chip

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    OK, so let's drill down into that a little bit further. When you say you've not been comfortable in your own skin, are you saying that you are physically turned off or uncomfortable with the things that make you appear male (body hair, your penis, etc.), such that you wished to present as a woman? Or simply, is it that you aren't happy with who you are and who you perceive yourself to be, and simply wish to be someone else other than yourself They are very different things.
     
    #4 Chip, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  5. Inlife88

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    A little of both. I have never liked my body hair, I have no problem with my penis. I think I like the idea of being pursued, instead of having to pursue.
     
  6. Inlife88

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    There is also the part of me, that wants to be the woman. Like when I watch a porn, I want to be the woman with the guy. I have gone through a period of thongs and bought a man bag/purse.
     
  7. tidalpool127

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    Hey, inlife88. If you honestly feel like you are trapped in the wrong gender then that is perfectly fine. Do you want the world to see you as female? I ask because so far you seem to be describing expressing femininity and liking feminine things, which you don't have to be female to do. I have a friend who daily wears more makeup than most of the women I know do on a daily basis, but he still identifies as and is a man. I too like to express femininity in some of my clothing choices. I have also had that fantasy about "being the woman" while watching straight porn when I was trying to deny who I was. It turned out(for me) to be less about actually being a woman and more about I wished those guys were doing those things to me. I also do not believe that the traditional notion of the "alpha male", e.g. someone who is aggressive and domineering to be neccessary in what makes someone a man. So, if you feel like you are truly female than that is good and you can start thinking about what you would want your transition to look like(e.g. what pronouns you will use, what you want your true name to be, if you want hormones and/or surgery). However, it is equally valid to express all the femininity you wan to and still be a man. People can try to tell you otherwise, but being effeminate does not make you less of a man.
     
  8. Chip

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    So I can't know exactly what you are experiencing, or what the answer is, but I can make inferences based on what you are saying.

    Plenty of gay men don't like body hair and wax, shave, or otherwise keep their body free of it. (Plenty of straight men who don't like body hair either.)

    What I hear in the above is you are talking mostly about courting roles or perceptions rather than gender identity. There are plenty of gay men who would rather have someone pursue them rather than having to pursue someone. There's also a pretty solid argument that this mindset probably has more to do with worthiness and confidence than it does to do with gender roles, as there are plenty of women who are very dominant and like to pursue men. And there are plenty of straight and gay men who carry "man bags"/purses.

    Again, I can't tell you if you are or are not trans. I can tell you that what you are describing does not seem to have anything to do with body dysmorphia, being trapped in the wrong body, having been born into a body that isn't yours, or any of the indicators that we generally see among people who are trans. Everything you describe falls more in the perspective of traditional (and outdated) perceptions of the roles that someone of a given gender can or cannot do. So all I'm saying here is that before you consider drastic changes, you really owe it to yourself to separate out beliefs about themes of dominance vs submissiveness and choice of clothes or accessories from actually being born into the wrong body.
     
  9. Inlife88

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    Thanks. Both advices have made me think. I agree that I don't have body dismorphia, I do like to be more feminine. What would be options to be more feminine?

    Thanks again
     
  10. tidalpool127

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    Hey, when you say you want to be more feminine what do you mean? Your appearance? I don't really wear clothes super associated with femininity such as dresses, skirts, or high heels. I do wear shawls when it's cold, I wore charm bracelets when I was younger, and my wrists are small for a guy so I do wear women's watches. I've worn things like light makeup, light eyeliner, and crop top shirts going to parties when I was young, but that wasn't often.
     
  11. Inlife88

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    I like the accessories of women. They are always prepared.

    My final question on the topic is, I love trans women, is there a way to identify with that?
     
  12. Chip

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    So... if you like the accessories that women wear... wear them. :slight_smile: Depending on where you live, of course, but Chantilly, being part of northern Virginia, I would assume to still be a pretty liberal place.

    As for loving trans women... be cautious there. I understand what you are saying, but a lot of trans women would find that comment to be really offensive, as they don't want to be seen as anything but women.

    But as for the meaning behind your comment... what is it that you perceive you like about trans women? My guess is, you're thinking in stereotypical terms, in the same way you were thinking in stereotypical terms about women above. So one exercise that might be helpful is to think about what the specific traits you appreciate, that you happen to associate with trans women, actually are. My guess is, if you do that, you'll find that the traits don't belong only (or even mostly) to trans women, and this might help you get a better handle on what it is you actually do like.
     
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  13. Inlife88

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    For trans women, I like the combination of boobs and penis.
     
  14. tidalpool127

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    Do you mean for yourself? Or is that what you are attracted to? If it's the latter, I'm not saying you're wrong to feel that way that's fine. However, you have to be mindful of other people. I've known a handful of trans women in real life and I am close enough to a few of them that they have opened up to me about their journeys. Small sample size, I know, but of those few only 1 of the women was comfortable with her assigned-at-birth genitals. The remaining women may not have all planned to get bottom SRS(sexual reassignment surgery) for various reasons but they were all uncomfortable with their birth genitals. There is also a community of men, I don't know if they are called this anymore but when I was younger they were called "chasers". These men start relationships with trans women before they get SRS and then end the relationship once she gets her SRS and this is of course very hurtful to the woman. I'm not saying you are like that or that you're bad person. I'm just saying if you do wish to enter a relationship with a trans woman then it would be better for all involved if it was because you like/love who she is as a person, not because she has certain body parts.
     
  15. Inlife88

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    Someone like Blaire White
     
  16. tidalpool127

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    I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean. I looked Blaire White up. So you want to be someone like her? Or do you want to be with someone like her?
     
  17. Inlife88

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    I meant, I'd like to be woth someone like Blaire White. I do see what's your point and Chip's point is. I am certainly not trying to offend anyone. I have been confused for a while. I guess if I were completely honest with myself, I would say I am gay, I just like the more feminine guys, while also being a little feminine myself. Would you say this is accurate?
     
  18. chicodeoro

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    I have no idea who Blaire White is but as a trans woman I can tell you I hate my genitals as they are at the moment. The combination you speak of wouldn't be 'cool' for me because I would feel incomplete.

    Tidalpool is right - people like us are not objects to be fetishised but individuals who need and deserve respect and love, like every other woman, indeed every human being.

    Beth
     
  19. Inlife88

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    Agree with you. I would not want to fetishize anyone. Everyone deserves love and respect. I hope you were not offended. I will say the porn industry does not portray things realistically and I feel that is what I get caught up in.
     
  20. Chip

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    The porn industry is, on the whole, abysmal to those who perform in it, especially to trans women. Unfortunately, there is still so much discrimination and rejection of trans people, porn can be one of the only avenues to earn a living open to trans women.

    If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend the series "Pose", on FX (I think older seasons are on Netflix.) It is absoutely astounding in its honesty and the accuracy with which it (heartbreakingly) portrays the lives and experiences of many in the trans community. While set in the 80s and 90s, many of the issues it addresses are no less problematic today.

    Yes, this sounds accurate. It also sounds like you have some perceptions based on stereotypes, which is understandable to someone who hasn't had that much exposure to the culture and community. I think as you spend more time among LGBT people, you'll figure out that the community is incredibly diverse (that is, if you don't reference the community by what you find in bars and clubs... you'll get an equally poor stereotype from those crowds), and that there are people of all types, shapes, sizes, ages, interests, etc. No different than the straight community.

    And you may be surprised to find that as you become more familiar with gay people, that your interest and attractino may lean more to the people and personalities and stories, and less about what they look or dress or act like. :slight_smile:
     
    #20 Chip, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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