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General News Sen. Sanders more electable than Hillary

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by onlythebulls13, Jan 10, 2016.

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  1. onlythebulls13

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    https://youtu.be/pATL6rPbpvY

    ---------- Post added 10th Jan 2016 at 06:35 PM ----------

    Well said aussie, i do want to say though that if the corporations want to leave america, then ill pack their bags for them. Theyre already outsourcing jobs at huge rates, id love to see them leave and not come back. Lets create incentives for co ops so we dont have to deal with evil corporations
     
  2. Aussie792

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    A lot of what you say is absolute ranting, which makes it difficult to address clearly, but I am going to have to pull you up here.

    Do you know what happens when the people of twelve nations hear of every proposal made in negotiations? They get angry, they prematurely oppose the entire deal before counteroffers are made and demands are softened. They pressure their governments and they have to pull out too early to actually shape a possible deal. Closed doors mean frank discussions and reduce the political consequences of ideas being floated - for the exact same reason cabinet discussions are sealed for decades before being made public in most countries.

    Let's say that New Zealand proposed provisions for environmental standards that Vietnam didn't want to accept. If that process had been open, Vietnam couldn't lose face and would have to withdraw or stand firm on demanding no environmental protections. New Zealand would have had to stay firm and refuse any softening of the draft language, even if it were to mean a massive improvement on the status quo, because their people could easily feel offended by the idea that such standards could be "lowered" even if they're actually improved. Public oversight is necessary and no treaty can be signed in secret, but that can't impede early negotiations. Imagine having to sell an idea to the public before you've even agreed on what that idea is going to be.

    A complex multilateral deal can't be scrutinised in public before it's even drafted. That makes it far too cumbersome, which is already a problem given that the deal took almost a decade from the time it was proposed by four nations to the time it was completed by twelve.

    You are having your discussion now, one that allows for transparency before the deal is signed, but not one that puts a stop to diplomacy. Now actually saying why you feel the agreement is bad might actually conduce real discussion instead of incoherently ranting.

    ---------- Post added 11th Jan 2016 at 11:40 AM ----------

    I'm really not sure what you're saying. They're outsourcing jobs, therefore they might as well leave entirely? You're angry that they're not entirely in America, but want them to leave completely where the US can't tax them and where no benefit exists at all for you? Even if the economic consequences of that were catastrophic, even if you went those many steps further than Sanders does, you would favour all that because you dislike corporations?

    If you're trying to sell me the idea by just calling them evil and no actual reasoning, I'm going to find it hard to be sympathetic to your concerns.
     
  3. Andrew99

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    the whole election is based on money and out of the democrats Hilary has the most. If trump had ran democratically and kept all his bigoted comments to himself then he would be the next president.
     
  4. onlythebulls13

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    They can make their deals behind closed doors, never said i want a reporter in the room as its going on. Once they make the deal, the people that it effects should be allowed to see it before it is put into place.

    If you negotiate a deal with another country, then you should be able to sell it to your people. Theyre there representing us, we ought to know whether our country is going to make it easy to outsource jobs to other countries. Just like with the Iran deal, we heard bits and pieces that were being leaked but we didnt know the scope of the deal until it was negotiated. We arent allowed to see the trade deal even after its implementation

    ---------- Post added 10th Jan 2016 at 06:46 PM ----------

    And name calling doesnt add anything to the discussion. Im not incoherently ranting. Im letting my opinion be known. If you have questions or want more details then you can ask. No need be rude....smh
     
  5. Aussie792

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  6. onlythebulls13

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    I meant after its implementation within its authors. Congress had to approve it first

    ---------- Post added 10th Jan 2016 at 06:55 PM ----------

    If you the people dont approve of it, then it shouldnt pass

    ---------- Post added 10th Jan 2016 at 06:57 PM ----------

    Trans-Pacific Partnership

    We know whats in it now...and its an awful deal
     
  7. Andrew99

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    I know honey but Hilary is going to win okay? (*hug*)
     
  8. onlythebulls13

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    "...Sanders, buoyed by the support of independent voters, outperforms Mrs. Clinton in hypothetical general-election matchups in both states among registered voters."*

    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...e-sanders-makes-strong-showing-in-new-polls/*

    I love it. The New York Times is sticking a fork in Hillary's and Bill's recent electability argument.*

    Some folks who make a habit of posting national election polls as if the primaries are all over would just love it if Bernie's supporters get disheartened enough to forget that*it is independent voters who decide the general election.*

    Well, that ain't gonna happen! It has become clear even to the MSM's flagship establishment newspaper thatBernie Sanders is the most electable candidate in a general election matchup, not Hillary.*

    Most, if not all, IA and NH polls do not even take into account first-time voters so*IMAGINE what is going to happen in Iowa and NH when millennial voters turn out as they did eight years ago for another Senator who was second place in the polls!*

    Looks like The People will vote for Change just as they did in 2008. Tomorrow, I am going to a Bernie campaign organizational meeting led by Zack Exley. I can't wait!*

    Definitely Feeling The Bern here in upstate NY... yep, I think another donation to Bernie is coming on...*GO BERNIE!*

    ---------- Post added 10th Jan 2016 at 07:15 PM ----------

    My buddy just sent me that
     
  9. Jared

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    You do realize that we do not live in a direct democracy, right? It is explicitly stated in the Constitution that the president proposed international agreements and a super majority of the Senate approves. They do not need to wait for people to approve it. The only way to change this would be a constitutional amendment, and would you really want a national vote every time something comes up in Congress, nothing would get done
     
  10. onlythebulls13

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    The representatives and senators should go home after reading the deal and discuss it with their constituents. Yes, they dont need the people to vote on it but that doesnt mean that the peoples opinions should not be taken into account at all
     
  11. Argentwing

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    Hillary is just the latest corrupt, false, fatcat Democrat that has contributed to as much bloodsucking of our country as the (somewhat differently but equally terrible) Republicans.

    That said, I think enough voters agree. I don't necessarily support everything Bernie has proposed, but he is the real deal in terms of ethics and motivations, and that resonates with people. We now understand that continuing these big-money political dynasties is not the way to fix anything.
     
    #31 Argentwing, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  12. BMC77

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    Not that anything is currently getting done under the current system...

    But this is a good point.
     
  13. Typhoon

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    Yes honey, but Trump will win the presidency okay? (*hug*)
     
  14. Andrew99

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    Ugh why do you always say trump is going to win? We've been over this before. He doesn't stand a chance. Marco Rubio is getting the republican nomination and Hilary is getting the democratic nomination and if it's Clinton vs. Rubio well then Clinton has got it.

    Hilary is going to be the next president and that's without a doubt! :slight_smile: :kiss:
     
  15. Skaros

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    Sanders is quickly catching up in the polls. This is around the same time in 2008 where Obama caught up to Clinton in the polls...

    With so many democrats and moderates that hate Clinton, there's no way we'd win with her as the candidate.

    Plus, Sanders might have Warren as his running mate. The thought of having Sanders as president and Warren as vice president makes my heart throb.

    If Sanders doesn't get the nomination, then we might as well prepare ourselves for a really crappy next 4-8 years with a Republican president.

    ---------- Post added 11th Jan 2016 at 06:54 PM ----------

    I hope Trump wins the nomination because there's no way he'll win in a general election.

    I also don't see why you're saying Rubio. Ted Cruz is second to Trump.
     
    #35 Skaros, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  16. IDont Say Aboot

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    Well I'm from Canada so I don't know American politics but one thing I do know: Hilary is for laws making guns not as much. That was terrible grammar. But considering the number of shootings, that seems smarter than trumps "Beating China" thing. Because the most important thing to look for in a leader is TOTALLY the ability to "beat China". WTF trump.
     
  17. BMC77

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    The argument some make for Rubio is that he'd be more likely electable than Cruz or Trump. And primary voters will see that, and vote accordingly.

    Of course...who knows? I see this argument, and I can agree with it. But I also think the Republican Party is dysfunctional, and seemingly dominated by a bunch of loonies. Thus, if they get their way, it may well be Trump who wins the nomination.

    One thought that might be thought: the last 2 cycles were losses, so we aren't being conservative enough with our candidate!
     
  18. Plattyrex

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    I absolutely think he's more electible. I don't want him to get nominated because I think he's the most electable person on either ticket. He has a lot of support from 3rd parties and moderates, which would take at least part of that advantage from Sanders were he to run against Rubio. I don't think there's a single Republican Hilary is capable of beating save maybe Trump, but I think Rubio would be worse for her. Rubio is one of the most powerful speakers I have ever heard, and if you put that against an abysmal speaker like Clinton I feel Rubio will inevitably win off of that alone. Charisma in my opinion is more important than any other factor in a general election. Rubio has a lot of it, Hillary has none.
     
    #38 Plattyrex, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
  19. sldanlm

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    My comment about betting at this time was simply based on who I think right now is going to end up with the nomination, if I had to risk money on the answer. The primaries haven't happened yet, and I'm not counting anybody out in either party at this time. As far as the south and what Hillary's people think, she might be in for a rude awakening. I'm from the south, and many of the progressives I know support Bernie.Among my circle of friends it's about 60/40 (Hillary/Bernie) so far. The interesting thing I get from listening to them discuss their candidate is the Bernie supporters are enthusiastic about Bernie, and the Hillary supporters are more anti Bernie, or rather anti his politics. Also they're very concerned about beating whoever is the Republican nominee, and they feel Bernie can't do that.

    One thing I heard from an older conservative was although he didn't like socialism he'd vote for Bernie over Hillary, because he thought Bernie was at least honest about who he was, and it'd be refreshing to at least have an honest person in the White House, if they were a democrat. He doesn't like politicians of either party who says things to get elected, and then shows their true colors after they win. He thought Hillary and O'Malley was just as socialist but didn't want to come out and say it.
     
  20. onlythebulls13

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    Bernie within the margin of error in iowa and closes in on hillary nationally, within single digits
     
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