1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Religion

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by quebec, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. Eli98

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    I personally think I am religious but I cannot give myself the title of catholic and so on. I don't agree with some of the things that the bible says or religion in general. I personally beleive that God loves us all, he has a plan for us and the things that are out of our contol may be influened by Him. So homosexuality would be an example. God influenced this but it is our own free will to do as we please... To stay celibate or not... To accept our selves or not.
    I think that religion nowadays is too political and revolves only around rules. What happened to feelings and conscience??
    A point about Jesus too... If he came to earth now wouldn't he be with the social outcasts, the sinners, the ill, the disabled like he did in the bible... So if religious people were following in Jesus' footsteps then wouldn't they be 'friends' with gay people???
     
  2. joshy the queen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Zane7 i just want to know one thing cant you imagine your self in a christ marrige with a man ?
    I heard many stories from guys who have thoughts the same as you then one day they found another partner who shares the same thoughts they both ended up together in a marrige weather its christan marrige or islamic or jewish
    What im trying to say is please dont just say god made me gay and made it a sin sit down look at cute couples living their dreams and you wishing that those dreams were possible
    Unless its really what you want÷
     
  3. Zane7

    Zane7 Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Joshy, to answer you with absolute honesty, no. I just can't envision myself in a homosexual marriage and yet be in a position in my life where God has been put first. I can't see the two going together. I do not condemn or judge anyone for their beliefs pertaining to homosexuality, but I know full well what mine are.
     
  4. looking for me

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    3,791
    Likes Received:
    869
    Location:
    on the Rock, Newfoundland and Labrador
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    a couple lyrics on religion and LGBTQ from, of all places a punk band from Chicago; Rise Against.

    What God would damn a heart?
    And what God drove us apart?
    What God could?

    Make it stop.
    Let this end.

    From a nation under God,
    I feel its love like a cattle prod.

    And too much blood has flown from the wrists,
    Of the children shamed for those they chose to kiss.
    Who will rise to stop the blood?

    This life chose me, I'm not lost in sin.
    But proud I stand of who I am,
    I plan to go on living.


    yes i cherry picked here but if you want the whole thing, the song is "Make it stop; September's Children" by Rise Against.

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2015 at 02:55 PM ----------

    just to add to my last, a southern baptist preacher once said, i would rather be judged before God as being wrong to show kindness and inclusivness to the LGBT community than to stand before Him and be judged wrong for exclusion and hate for a volunerable section of my society.
     
  5. joshy the queen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    But is it what you want Living alone ? or you are letting those beliefes control what you want ?
    What if your wrong ? And you wasted your life thinking that this was a sin ? What would you do? Cause we know we as humans make mistakes including wrong understanding of gods words
    Im not judging you i really respect how much you love god and wouldnt put yourself first :slight_smile:
    But because i was you a month ago but i cant help you cause our book is not the same im a muslim but what i did was read the whole verse and understand each and every word and i saw the truth try it i feel more conected to god and i feel like right now everything i feared got better im not feeling like im a sin or that fear that im going to be punished i hope god would guide you to the truth whatever its :icon_wink
     
  6. Zane7

    Zane7 Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I'm letting God have his way in me, because I see value in that. I am putting myself second in order to submit my life more fully over to what He wants. This kind of obedience and denial of self is not very popular with culture today, but it is a necessary ingredient of the Christian walk. Human beings have all these ideas about what will make them happy and give them peace, but all too often those things disappoint. God wants us to have the peace and life that He offers. But we can only get that by humbling ourselves and admitting that God knows infinitely more than we do what is best for us. This belief, as yours in the Muslim religion did, requires faith. I cannot know beyond a shadow of a doubt what I believe is true, but I choose to believe it because of how richly I have felt God's presence and provision in my life. Even if it turns out to be false and this life is sadly all there is, then I will not mind having lived my life for something Better and Higher than what this screwed up world has to offer. I am moved for the love Christ has for me and how He demonstrated it on the cross in the most agonizing manner possible. I am moved by the Christian story, and I want nothing more than to share in it.
     
  7. looking for me

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    3,791
    Likes Received:
    869
    Location:
    on the Rock, Newfoundland and Labrador
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    there are a lot of things i have done that i may go to hell for, being part of the LGBTQ community isn't one of them.
     
  8. Zane7

    Zane7 Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I hope you are right. Incidentally, you need never fear going to Hell at all if you have accepted Jesus as your Savior. Our salvation is not based on being good enough, because we can never be good enough on our own. Christ died for us, taking the rightful punishment for our sins upon Himself so that we may have eternal life and be reconciled with God. You can know you are going to Heaven by putting your faith alone in Christ for salvation.
     
  9. CuriousLiaison

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    With a branch of Amnesty campaigning to release the prisoners of conscience in Hell...

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2015 at 07:40 PM ----------

    Sorry quebec, I am trying not to post here, but the flesh is weak...
     
  10. joshy the queen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Lebanon
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    this is a moral story we tell children and it has a point of view you should consider :
    you know there was a story about a man who just wanted to worship god all his life he wants to do something good so he decided not to marry not to work not to do anything he just sat under a rock and started praying he kept praying all his life their until he died
    after he died in the afterlife god asked him what have you done in your life he said i was praying for you my lord all my life then god tells his angels send him to heaven with my mercy the man then stops and asks god why should i go their with your mercy my lord i spent my whole life praying and worshiping you shouldn't i be deserving of going to heaven ?
    god said to him no because i haven't sent you humans just to pray and worship me i made angels for this purpose i made you to do good in your world to work to live as a human not to worship me and stop your life and act like you don't have needs as a human
    so dont you think god would be happy if you fulfil your needs while still worshiping and following all his rules ??? you know marrying a guy is not just a sexual need its romantic and emotional and the father in you would love to grow out and raise kids in the future why would you put that need away??
    jesus was perfect but we are not we cant be jesus we take all good stuff he did and try to be like him but you can't do everything you cant talk to god you cant be born from a virgin mother you can't do any of the miracles he did right??? and this includes not fulfilling your human needs you can be good to the poor and the ill and all of those good traits that he has and any good human can have those traits will get you to heaven before everyone
    idk if your religion says the same in the bible but our book tells us that if we couldn't live life happy and comfortable that means something is wrong we are doing something wrong are you happy and comfortable now and do you see yourself happy by this choice?? also if you married a man wouldn't you be happier??
    :slight_smile:
     
  11. QueerTransEnby

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Other than believing in celibacy for same sex attracted individuals, I totally understand where you come from as an affirming Evangelical. I can agree with most of this quote, I really can. I don't believe in rampant sex but monogamy. I just think love>judgement.

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2015 at 06:53 PM ----------

    I have been saved by grace through faith and have a personal relationship with God. I am seeing someone who is a Christian. Our whole goal has been to be there emotionally for each other. Our relationship is based on love, emotions, and empathy and not sex, drugs, etc. Like others, I have prayed with God and am at peace with it. I know how much he loves me and trust in the promise of eternal security given to us in His Word.
     
  12. aboutface

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Mississippi (US)
    Man I wasn't keeping up with this the whole way and don't have the kind of time to parse through all of it now.

    I will say that there are certainly evangelical christians who do not believe that all same sex relationships or sex is inherently sinful, and they base this not just on their own logic and reason but on their interpretations of scripture. Matthew Vines and Justin Lee are two prominent examples. Of course, it's also very likely anyone who has any interest in the matter is already aware of this and I'm not looking to debate the theological points in this setting even though I do agree with Vines, Lee, etc.

    I respect anyone's decision for themselves even if it is to remain celibate. It makes me a little sad in the cases where it is, in my view, for the wrong reasons.
     
  13. CuriousLiaison

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I would also like to say that I at least empathise with this quote.

    We know that we don't agree with each other. But I don't want to contribute to making you feel isolated, or as though this forum isn't somewhere where you can find support. The truth is I've been enjoying having the argument. I'm sorry that I have several times allowed myself to come across as smug.

    If it makes any difference, I'm not an atheist because I'm gay. Being gay is a conclusion I've only come to pretty recently, and for most of my life have thought of myself as asexual or borderline asexual, then as homoromantic, and only recently as homosexual. Over here, religious people are in the minority. At least among youngish people. I'm unusual in that I was a Christian. For several years I went to Eucharist three times a week, occasionally carrying candles and thuribles. But by around 18/19 I was taking Devil's Advocate positions, arguing against believers and non-believers alike, and by around 20 I had moved on.

    Don't know if that makes any difference, but I hope I haven't implied that I've actually got anything against you or anything. I've just been enjoying the argument.
     
  14. CyclingFan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Northern CA
    The Gnostics were called heretics by those who had a political advantage over them. That's not fraud. Fraud would mean that they were selling something untrue. What were they selling, exactly?
     
  15. QueerTransEnby

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I hate to get into a theological discussion here, but the gnostics were viewed as frauds for denying the Trinity. It is a counterfeit gospel that is in clear opposition to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The gnostics were the force behind the gospel of Thomas. https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/554-the-gospel-of-thomas-so-called
     
  16. butHitlerisDead

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    To be honest, if I was a Christian I'd probably believe homosexuality was a sin etc etc. But that's why I'm not a Christian.
     
  17. Zane7

    Zane7 Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    CuriousLiaison, thank you for those kind and honest words. Truthfully, I enjoy having discussions such as these. If we all agreed on these matters, I assume things would get pretty boring. I think it is a sign of maturity that we can discuss these divergent viewpoints without falling into bitter name-calling or other such childish shenanigans. There's a part of me that wishes I could find a way to have my cake and eat it too, so to speak, but I also have to make choices in a way that is honest with my beliefs. If there is a conflict between the two, I have to strive to put my convictions in Christ first. That's who I am. It's a part of me. Thank you for understanding, and I look forward to more engaging discussions in the future. :slight_smile:
     
  18. quebec

    Moderator Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    2,348
    Location:
    U.S.
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Zane7....the anger isn't mine, but if you do read all the posts you will see the anger. And I had no preconceived idea of how the the conversation should turn out. I see EC as a place where people are helped, many of the posts are far from helpful. This is a difficult topic, I expected difficult posts not angry posts. I hoped for posts that would help and encourage people not confuse them more. It's very difficult to be gay and Christian, they contradict each other and yet, speaking from my own life only, I am gay and I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I can't reconcile those two positions, I had hoped that someone would post something that would help me, instead it just became an argument. I am disappointed.....David
     
  19. CyclingFan

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    Northern CA
    I don't think you get to call them frauds for denying the trinity. That's not fraudulent, that's just a different concept of the divine.

    Am I missing something, cause you can't be arguing that not believing in the the trinity makes one a fraud?

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2015 at 09:28 PM ----------

    David,

    There are churches out there that teach acceptance towards all people, including us lgbt. Have you ever attended one?
     
  20. QueerTransEnby

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    3,708
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    No, but it is in clear conflict with the 4 gospels, but this isn't worth arguing about. You are entitled to your opinion and I mine.