Religion

I don't have answers to your questions. However, I will say that it is ignorant of a lot of people to overlook the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic in studying a lot of passages. That includes the clobber verses. When one does an exegetical study as I did at my Christian college, it is like a peeling off an onion. You get to see the bigger picture. The historical context and traditions of when a book was written should be kept in mind. I am not saying that Scripture isn't relevant today. What I am saying is that it IS important to know the audience and WHY the Scriptures were written the way they were.

 

well if you look at it this way the bible isnt completely correct by our grammer i mean look at ezekiel at the beginning of the book it describes what we now would enterprate as extraterrestrials in flying gyro pods so that is a valid point that we cannot completely be correct about what the bible says look at revelation 22 18 it says it pretty much says dont take or add any thing to the bible so therefore my point being some peo ple have taken and replaced some things to the bible and that includes the book of enoch which in those days describes enoch being taken in a flying saucer technically there are alot of sound and light adjectives in that book look at it imean its there and it was taken out of the original copy of the bible by the high preists

 

True, Jesus endorsed James in the Gospel of Thomas.

12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

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Of course the gospel of thomas was omitted from bible. It gave equal rights to woman. What politician would do that then?

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114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

 

I wish I could answer those questions. I have to get back to some bible reading soon!

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Even though I am a dedicated believer in Christ I would love to see proof of this?

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I don't know who can answer this but was King James allegedly gay in bible? I heard rumors of that being true.

 

Then why was (1 example) the Gospel of Thomas excluded from Bible?

Who conviened the group that compiled the Bible?

Keep asking... You are under orders of. Jesus...

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2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

 

I have no idea. I don't know if your trying to mock me or other believers but that last comment was uncalled for.

 

I am trying to get you to see the bible is incomplete and highly edited. Read more beyond bible;

18. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

 

ok i see now.

 

The gospel of Thomas was written by gnostics who denied the divinity of Christ. Therefore, it was excluded from the canon. The gnostics were proven to be frauds then and they still are now.

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This is a good discussion on how we got the Bible: http://www.churchhistory101.com/docs/New-Testament-Canon.pdf

 

King James (VI of Scotland and I of England) was rumoured to be in love with a couple of men and to be sleeping with them over the course of his life. He certainly showered them with gifts and titles. One was George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham, who you might know if you've read or seen an adaptation of The Three Musketeers, although he's depicted as straight in that.

I've heard people speculate that he put an anti-gay slant in the Bible because he was trying not to accept his homosexuality. I don't really buy that. Other translations seem to be the same in substance to the KJV. I don't know to what extent he was able to go to the translators and say "Just to show that I don't lie with men, can we emphasise the sinfulness of that please? Thanks."

Hi quebec, glad you're back. I think religion will always provoke arguments on the Internet. Inevitably it's a subject that most of us will have similar views to the people we know in real life, but not online. I've enjoyed this thread, and hope others have. I just hope it doesn't go too off-topic (though if it has I'm probably among the major culprits). I also hope it's been of some help and you've found the different perspectives useful.

 

Well the bible was written by jewish men.

It is all oral history written down long after events reportedly ocurred.

Prove the bible is not a fraud if you are so sure .

Gosoel of Thomas was authenticated.

It really does not matter as nobody "knows" and those that claim they do are liars or frauds.

 

Skiff, we as Christians believe that the Bible was indeed penned by human authors. But we believe they were all under the divine influence of the Holy Spirit. Throughout the entire process that ultimately led to the Bible we have today, we believe God was there guiding it along. An omnipotent, omniscient being is capable of such guidance, I think.

 

One of the most interesting aspects of biblical interpretation is the fact that it actually needs so much interpretation...there is such endless disagreements, not just about homosexuality, but regarding just about every aspect of the bible. Consider all the varying denominations and sects. One important question is why the bible would be constructed in a way that could confuse so many? It's like an endless game of words and interpretations.

 

With respect, some Christians hold to that view, but many don't and I think this is one of the reasons why we are now going round in circles. We have different contributors, from different denominations (and none) all chiming in with their own perspective and counter arguments.

Truth be told, more learned people than us have been having these debates (sometimes spiteful arguments) for years and years and they have failed to come to any common ground. My own denomination (Anglicanism) is constantly at loggerheads over moral issues and I can only see the fault lines deepening as conservatives and liberals within the church move further apart. It's rather sad in one respect, but you can't square a circle.

I don't see any of us achieving what learned theologians have all failed to do.

 

I don't think one has to be a learned theologist to understand what the Bible's message is. I'm sorry, but I don't. Humans overcomplicate matters to some degree, but I think anyone who genuinely wants to honor God by following His Word can come to a very adequate understanding of what it means to walk the Christian walk.

 

So, Zane7, I've been following this discussion in stealth mode and not saying anything, but I have to ask what it is you're looking for here? Support for your decision and beliefs? Affirmation? Debate? Convincing others of your beliefs, or reassurance that they're correct? I'm not interested in talking down to you or being disrespectful of what you believe, and from the way you present yourself I doubt that you're particularly open to changing your opinion on the subject, which is entirely your choice. I respect that. But what do you want to get out of the discussion here?

 

Hey Choirboy,

Truthfully I'm not sure exactly what I want here. It is refreshing to have conversation with other people who experience same-sex attraction. It allows me to put a wall down that I usually keep up. I would very much like to interact with fellow Christians on here who struggle with homosexuality and yet do their best to obey the Bible concerning it. It sounds very dramatic for me to say this, but I at times feel like I exist in a place where the eye does not see. I can fit in with fellow Christians, but I often feel like I'm hiding something major from them. And a lot of Christians are uncomfortable with even discussing the topic of homosexuality. They want to pretend it is an outside threat that doesn't exist in the church. Then there's the gay community who I can relate to in that I share same-sex attractions. But more often than not, Christianity is rather frowned upon in LGBT circles, and me choosing to live a celibate life is viewed with suspicion and sometimes even anger. I don't feel I fit perfectly anywhere. I'm caught in between two worlds, which can be uncomfortable at times. But discomfort is a reality of the Christian life, and it can be a good teacher if we allow it to be. I guess I'm here to maybe learn something about myself and interact with real people who share the same struggles I do. Thank you for asking, Choirboy.

 

Where is the anger, David? I don't see what is so out of line here. We are discussing the topic from many perspectives. Not every member sees religion as a battering ram to be shunned. For some of us, it plays an important part in our lives. Just because the conversation didn't turn out exactly as you wanted it to, you see that as grounds to end the conversation? I think that's not really fair. So long as the topic is discussed respectfully, I see no reason why it cannot continue.