Questions You've Always Wanted to Ask Atheists

Of all the "questions you've always wanted to ask * insert worldview here*" threads, wonder why this one blew up the most...

 

Morality (along with good and evil and right and wrong in the social sense) is just a made up social control mechanism, much like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. It doesn't actually exist in any objective or cosmic sense the way that physical constants or the laws of physics do.

Regarding things like pedophilia or slavery. There have been and continue to be quite religious cultures that thought/think both of these activities are just fine. Prior to the American Civil War there was a significant body of theological and social work aimed at proving that keeping black people as property was sanctioned by God, and a lot of slave owners were devoutly religious people.

Religion is as subject to cultural change and reinterpretation as any other human social construct and certainly is anything but representative of moral absolutes. More often than not it simply rubber stamps whatever people want to do anyway. Or grants them a 'get out of jail free' card as long as they claim to have repented or found religion or asked their God for forgiveness or the like.

As far as what to use in place of religion or morality: enlightened self interest and cost-benefit analysis generally work quite well in my experience.

As far as I've ever seen or read the scientific method does not assume any kind of creator, logical or otherwise.

Todd

 

I apologize. I meant no disrespect by my question nor was it intended to be a trap. I am not trying to pit atheism versus theism. The golden rule is a New Testament concept:

Luke 6:31: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

I'm not questioning your beliefs. I am, however, questioning where do you derive your moral authority. You aver no need for religion to tell you what is right from wrong. On what do you base your morality, your ethics? If you base it on our societal norms, which as I pointed out earlier can vary greatly, on our Western ethos you'll find at its heart Judeo-Christian beliefs, thus moral absolutes have their origins in a belief in a deity. This then must present itself as failing in your logic. The "golden rule", though a useful paradigm for society, in itself has no moral authority.

So again, respectfully, where do you get your moral authority to determine right from wrong when everything is relative?

 

Thank you for directly answering my question Todd. All religions have at one time or another have been used to justify horrific human ends. Certainly, the "get out of jail card" is one important aspect in the Christian faith. It is at the heart of man's redemption if it is more than hollow words:

My words fly up, my thoughts remain below:
Words without thoughts never to heaven go.
Claudius, "Hamlet", Act III, Scene 3

The initial use of the scientific method has it's origins in medieval belief in a logical God-centred universe, but it's really a minor factoid.

What most impressed me was the following statement:

"As far as what to use in place of religion or morality: enlightened self interest and cost-benefit analysis generally work quite well in my experience."

This is at the crux of what I was asking. Although it is relativistic, it's logic is sound.

Thank you again for your thoughtful response.

 

The answer is that morality is a relative term that does depend on culture, religion, and mostly your own ideology. If you ask a growing number of Christians in certain denominations, they'll tell you that the moral and just thing to do is kill all gays. But does any reasonable person agree? In the United Arab Emirates, you have to get a license to drink alcohol and can be arrested for failing to dress to Muslim holy scripture standards. That's because their government is an Islam-based theocracy. But again, does any reasonable person agree with that logic?

As for your own ideology, here's an example. We all know how contentious the abortion debate is here in the States. Some people call it murder, others call it none of their business. I personally see it as the easiest and most efficient answer to quite a few of the problems we face as a society, including mass stupidity, genetic diseases, the cycle of bad parenting just to name a few. I know that's going to ruffle some feathers, but that's from my pragmatic worldview.

 

@tscoty!
Well the way I see it, yes these social norms and religion are mutually dependent on each other ! But you should see that religion in the eyes of atheists is something man and society created , so its bound to have incorporated social norms , which have been changing along with the evolving human mind. eventually these lead to changes in religion! That doesn't mean they stemmed out of religion ! Yes religion was used to re enforce them by playing the card of fear of god. But this however doesn't mean people got to know about them only because of religion! This is where the line between culture and religion becomes blur! You are confusing social norms with religion! I'll give you a few examples-
1) vegetarianism - so most religions in the world don't endrorse vegetarianism. Specially the abrahamic religions which according to you shaped the western society. But there are people in the west who are vegetarians ? Didn't they choose to become vegetarians ? Why? because of personal beliefs!
Similarly the basic idea of not doing what you wouldn't want to be done to you is from a human instinct of sympathy and empathy! Furthermore, Scientists and psychiatrists believe in the concept of mirror neurons which help you feel what others are feeling without being in contact with the original stimulus! These mechanisms are enough for a person to understand what he shouldn't do to others !
2)Vaganism is a newer concept! It's not a part of any religion! But it has its roots in morality! How would you explain that?
3) polygamy is accepted and even prescribed in certain religions! Why have they given it up now ?
4) there are a lot of immoral things religion taught people - sexism , racism bigotry! But we got past it? On the basis of what? Religion? I don't think so!
I'll give you an example of how religion plays no role in deciding what's right or wrong in the society (at least in this context)
Its illegal to engage in homosexual acts in India, but the dominant religion in India is Hinduism which is probably the most tolerant to homosexuality! Yes the law is derived from the British penal code which is derived from the Bible. But there are a lot of Hindus who are against it for no specific religious reasons. They just think it's wrong! Most of it is because they can't understand it or relate to the feelings and because of the social norm that love and marriage is only between two people of the opposite sex! But based on the religion that these people follow , marriage is a union of two souls and souls don't have gender! So there is no religious basis in what they believe but yet they believe in it and homosexuality is a big taboo! Now would you say all morals are derived from religion?
So what you need to understand is that yes we learn our morals by socialization and acculturation but we choose to abide by them because of the good in us! Culture and social norms have a role to play in them ! But to say it's completely derived from religion is incorrect!
The main question here should be why are you moral ? Is it coz you fear God? Or is it coz you don't want to do bad to others ? If it's the first, then your morality comes from religion. if its the second, its coming from you!
And if you really want to go to the crux of where a non religious person aquires his morality? Then I'd say it's a human emotion or a sort of instinct derived from love! Love for himself , love for his dear ones, love for peace !

 

There are no moral absolutes or even relative absolutes in atheism. As a matter of fact atheism takes no position in morality - except that morality cannot come from god since he doesn't exist.

From cosmic perspective I cannot give any moral absolutes. What keeps society from eating infants is not the religion either but the moral mechanism built inside us. Every normal human being has primitive set of moral codes imprinted on us: we are born with capacity to empathy, caring and altruisim. These inbound emotions are what ultimately govern our moral conduct, not religion.

If God's law was absolute we would still be stoning gays and people who break the sabbath and keeping slaves would not be a problem. However, people have quietly over time abandoned the doctrines that don't really fit their moral compass. And even if there was a God with absolute set of rules why on earth anyone would be bound to follow them? Out of fear of burning in hell? If that is so, then your view of humanity is very negative.

 

Never gonna happen.
A major thing for me with religion is the intolerance and violence that every religion has associated with it. Ie violence in the name of their god.

So no. Just no.

 

Suppose some whacko is putting a gun on your head and forcing you to pick one. What is your pick?

I would probably choose either some really wacko such as Egyptian pantheon or Buddhism as it is more like a philosophy than an actual religion.

 

I'd point out that what you've cited are Old Testament laws, from which Jesus's death and resurrection freed mankind. I don't expect you to believe this, nor do I wish to argue the point, because such a debate will prove neither of us right nor change our minds. As to why would I want to be a Christian, it is not out of fear of damnation, but a desire to be closer to Jesus and to be more like him. I do believe in certain absolutes. The center my like life and comfort me. It gives me hope for humanity.

 

If a wacko was holding a gun to my head he would already have a religion in mind. And that wouldn't be me picking a religion because there would be no belief involved.

 

I think you are taking this question too seriously. Yes, obviously picking a religion on gun point is not going to involve actual belief in the religion. I think what the maker of the question wanted to know is which religion do you feel is the most humane or otherwise pleasant.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism#Prohibitions_in_Sikhism

 

No, it was not a reference to the Old Testament but to Torah and Qu'ran. Since you did not specify that the only true moral absolute is your version of Christianity I took examples from other religions too.

 

To be honest, I always found this rule to be very flawed as it assumes a person to be "sane" in order for this to work. Why? Someone who doesn't mind pain or even likes being hit will obviously see this rule in a very different light than most. Do to others as you would have them do to you... Doesn't seem right.

This rule simply doesn't work for all those who genuinely like things we often view as undesired.

Just throwing in some other perspective.

-
As for the Old Testament stuff, it's debatable whether Jesus "freed" mankind of it, as it is not clear whether he came to abolish the Old Testament whatsoever. I'm familiar with the point of view "the fulfillment", so to say, but that doesn't mean that it necessarily is the true view. As usual, it's all up to interpretation.

 

None.

 

I'm confused. They shouldn't take the question seriously? What do you mean?

 

i dont think that they taking it seriously, but dont know, its the mind of an atheist and i found it interesting in a good way.

 

If it is always true no matter the infraction then it seems rather hollow to me.Conversely, if even the tiniest infraction (or even mere ignorance of the 'rules') results in an eternity of torture and suffering (i.e., an infinite punishment for a finite infraction), then it seems virtually impossible to believe that the relationship is anyting other than an abusive one.

It is relativistic, true. But then, despite all the talk of 'moral absolutes' most religions (and the societies built upon their principles) are known more by their breach of such things then their unfailing following of them.

You're welcome, btw. And thank you for the thoughtful question.

Todd

---------- Post added 28th Jan 2016 at 08:56 PM ----------

You might be interested in the concept of metalaw, which has as one of its major concepts a variation of the golden rule:

Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.

Todd

 

Because the calendar we use today wasn't invented until later on.....

---------- Post added 28th Jan 2016 at 06:51 PM ----------

Ok, atheists don't hate Jesus. We just don't believe he existed or exists. I grew up in a super Christian family but most of Christianity doesn't make sense to me. At all.
Buddhism has become quite intriguing to me, but I know most don't see it as religion but more of a way of life, like being a vegetarian. But most aspects of Buddhism are way more practical and make way more sense than blindly following a patriarchal figure that you're not sure exists. And I mean, for those of you that have read the Old Testament, dear lord....there is some scary stuff in there....