1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Questions You've Always Wanted to Ask Atheists

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by thepandaboss, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. loveislove01

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Earth, probably
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I believe the redemption of my past actions is how I act in the future. I redeem myself for mistakes in my past either by fixing them- or making sure I don't repeat it in the future. We as humans are flawed, and I believe that we should try to slowly work on these flaws, and become a better person and have a more positive effect on those around us.

    I feel my value is what I do in the world- how I effect people, and what I do. And how good I am, and how good I can be. I find my value within myself and on other's view of me.
     
  2. Funn

    Funn Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Fair enough. Good answer actually. I don't necessarily agree 100%, but it is a sensible and understandable answer.

    I have another question based on something you just said. Please do not take this as me attempting to refute anything you said. I liked your answer. This is just a separate question inspired by your answer.

    What standard do you use to decide what a "good person" is? Without something to scale it by (like the Bible in my case), how do you know who has the right idea of what it means to be good?
     
  3. loveislove01

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Earth, probably
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I understand you're not trying to refute anything :slight_smile: it's all good.

    I have my own set of values- To me, there is one thing I do consider wrong- anything that has the consequences of hurting someone, including yourself. So acts of violence, bullying, insulting, cheating on someone, self harm, emotional abuse, or anything that has the intent of making someone hurt- that is wrong.

    I feel like I do have something to scale it by- and it is the consequences. If you hurt someone, there are always consequences. We all- intentionally or not, have been wrong, but we should work towards what is right. A good person is someone who doesn't have a negative intent in their actions.
     
  4. Funn

    Funn Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Again, good answer. I still do not necessarily agree (not entirely at least), but I understand. I like that you care so much about the welfare of others, that is a very respectable quality in my opinion. Thanks so much for the quick and clear responses. I enjoyed this. <3
     
  5. AKTodd

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    I don't believe I have any intrinsic value, actually. Not in any truly objective or universal sense - and ignoring the market value of the elements that make up my body, since markets are just social constructs. I, and every other person on this planet (every other living thing on ths planet, actually) are just animated sacks of dirty water that have managed to achieve a degree of self-awareness (in the case of the human dirty water sacks anyway). We are crawling around on the outside of an insignificant speck in a vast, mostly lifeless void that neither knows nor cares (indeed, is incapable of knowing or caring) if we live or die, are in ecstasy or unbearable pain.

    What value I feel for myself arises from myself and possibly, and to a lesser degree, from those whose opinion of me I choose to care about (a very small group whose members can find their privileges revoked at any time). The sources generating it may be my accomplishments, positive feelings I get from interacting with others in certain ways, or other things.

    As far as being a 'flawed human with no means of redemption' -

    a) One person's flaw is another person's perfection. I have things about myself I'm less than thrilled by, but they are just matters of opinion and often either things I can do nothing about, in which case I'd best learn to live with them since blubbering into my beer is nonproductive, or things I can choose to take action to mitigate or correct. If I choose not to, that's my choice and my consequences to live with.

    b) The statement seems to be based on the premise that there is someone or something out there (presumably God if one is a believer) that is both judging and handing out redemption. But since there actually isn't any such entity there is not only no possibility of redemption but no possibility of failure that needs redeeming in the first place. So the concept is sort of a non-starter from the get go.

    Todd
     
  6. Funn

    Funn Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Good Lord I am so glad I do not believe any of that.

    I mean, you explained it really well. I think I pretty much have a grasp of what you were explaining. It just seems very depressing.

    I will be honest, if any of that was true, I would not want to know. I don't believe any of it anyways, but I honestly think I could enjoy life a lot more believing that it has meaning. I am not trying to give that whole "Life is worthless without God" argument. I doubt that would be true. I just think life has more meaning with God.

    Please don't think I am saying that I only believe in God because I want to. I am just saying that even if any part of me believed you were right, I would prefer the ignorant bliss in this particular case...maybe.

    Also, I hope nothing I said sounded patronizing or argumentative. I didn't mean to. I am not arguing with your logic or anything. We just believe almost the exact opposite of each other. Sorry to ramble. :icon_bigg
     
  7. gravechild

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Androgyne
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Alright, a more serious question: do you feel atheists are an oppressed group, at least in the West? I get the feeling it would be more so in the US than in most European countries, as well as Australia, New Zealand, Canada. I've also heard a few Christians say they're "oppressed" here.

    I don't think it's at quite the same level as being LGBT, a racial minority, female, but there's definitely a stigma. I just don't hear about it often since I'm more involved in liberal circles that are either ambivalent or even hostile towards religious folk. If this were Saudi Arabia, things might be different.
     
  8. Distant Echo

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    on the verge of somewhere
    Well I'm in Australia but my answer is no. Most people I talk to don't care about your religion. I guess if I associated with a lot of deeply religious people I might notice something in their attitude towards me but as it stands I am very comfortable in my atheism. I certainly don't feel like a minority or oppressed.
    And any religion that attacks, oppresses or denigrates someone because of their decision to not have a religion is not one I would want to be part of.
    Everyone is equal, regardless of race, sexuality or religion, or lack thereof.
     
  9. Ram90

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    394
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I think atheism is just not declared in some parts of the world. For instance in India, we I live, I haven't come across any atheist. This can be because religion and beliefs aren't something that come up in a casual conversation unless you are a fanatic. Even the most orthodox of believers don't really go on the street questioning the religious affiliations of people they meet randomly.

    It is also possible most people don't declare being an atheist because of some fear or religious persecution. I've never heard of something of that sort happening though.
     
  10. Fighter694

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    @phoenix I don't think so ! At least in my friends circle , 30% are atheists! I know families who are atheists , this includes pretty old people too! The thing is in India there isn't much of religious propaganda! The only people who will be bothered if you are an atheist are your parents or grandparents! While there are a lot of religious people, there are a lot of people who just don't care! Some just go with the flow when required while others outrightly opppse religious stuff. They aren't oppressed exactly. Moreover in Hindu mythology there are stories of atheistic 'rishis' who didn't face any bad consequences! 5 out of 6 schools of Hinduism is atheistic or agnostic! Hinduism is a religion which works on a cafeteria system! You pick n choose what you want. So its pretty accepted around here. if not accepted they arent ridiculed or oppressed either!
     
  11. Ram90

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    394
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    You can't call a school of a religion (in your case hinduism) as atheistic. If it's under a religion I don't think it can be atheistic. Agnostic I don't know. As for 'rishis' who existed years, possibly centuries ago, I don't think they're particularly relevant to the discussion of "atheism in today's world".

    When I speak about India, it has other religions too. So I speak of people who follow all religions in India, just not Hinduism alone. :wink:
     
  12. Quem

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    No. =)

    I don't understand why you would need such an "intrinsic value". If you find it important/good to know that some book tells you that you are loved, then that's okay. :icon_bigg For me, such things don't matter at all. A book can tell me whatever, I don't care. :lol:

    So, to answer, I don't care about that nor does such a though cross my mind really. I think there's no such thing as "intrinsic value". One book may tell you that you're loved, sure, another may tell you that you're not loved. I don't care. :lol:

    Well, for one, as an atheist you cannot run for office in the US (in certain states). It's unfair treatment, so I understand the "I'm oppressed" in such a case.

    I don't think atheists in the Netherlands say such things. I've never heard of it. But then again, I don't think they have less rights here. =)
     
  13. Fighter694

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2015
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bangalore
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    @Phoenix: Yes true , we cannot call a school of philosophy under a religion as atheistic, doesn't make sense.
    But Hinduism isn't a religion! This has been declared by the supreme Court of India too! Hinduism is just the culture of India shared by jains and Sikhs too! Now on a broader sense there are six schools of philosophy in india .One of them, Vedanta is a theistic religious school! The others encourage and promote discussion of the existence of God. Some of them are atheistic who believe that our life is just a consequence of what we do and has nothing to do with a God. They dont acknowledge or give importance to the existence of God, they think its impertinent to our lives!
    In Hindu schools or veda patashala, they have allocated hours or classes to discuss and make conclusions on God! This is reflective of the open mindedness of the hindu society. The story of the rishi is an example of the freedom within hinduism , its definitely not reflective of the current day scenario I agree. But in this context opression of atheists originates from the religion and teachings of a religion in the subject of apostasy. Hence when one debates God in india it's not hushed or shunned away like the Abrahamic religions. like for example in Islam its clearly stated that if you are born a Muslim and if you stray from Islam, you can be put to death by your family! Yes probably a typical indian parent would tell you if you are an atheist that what you think is wrong and wont answer your questions because of lack of complete knowlege. but no body treats you badly or tells you that you would go to hell! This is rooted in Hindu culture because Lord Krishna is supposed to have said that even if you don't believe in me or a God it's OK but you should follow dharma (righteousness and morality) and you will not go to hell! I feel these are the factors due to which apostasy is not viewed critically in hinduism and there is no punishment or consequence. But i could be wrong in presenting a general picture because I represent the educated class. I belong to a very othrodox Hindu family and we have relatives who are atheistic! Nobody views them critically or shuns them away , in fact they aren't even discussed in a negative tone. That's probably why I feel this way about the general Hindu society. The other religions- christianity, islam or Buddhism in india may just be a representative of the rest of the world, so nothing much to say there.
     
    #193 Fighter694, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  14. AKTodd

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    From what I've seen on this thread and elsewhere a lot of believers seem to feel that way for some reason. I don't really understand why since I find it either very positive and uplifting or largely irrelevant to my day-to-day existence, depending.


    No, doesn't bother me at all.

    Todd:slight_smile:
     
    #194 AKTodd, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  15. mychemromance99

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    India
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    All but family
    I disagree. I have faced severe opposition from my dad, and other relatives for being an atheist. I have several atheist friends, and all of them have faced opposition, not only from their own families, but anyone else who is aware about their atheism. To the point where a friend of mine is forced to partake in rituals/poojas etc. And no, there is no dearth of religious propaganda, at least where I stay. All you need to do is get out and look around, there will be several hoardings about upcoming festivals/celebrations etc (read Navratri, Ganesh Chathurthi, etc) Religious music is blared around temples (which can be found in almost every other by-lane). This is in my opinion, religious propaganda.

    I don't understand "Going with the flow." An outright atheist would not participate in any such rituals or stuff. If so, they aren't exactly atheists, as all of these rituals are about supernatural powers, pleasing the Gods, purifying the house, etc.
    An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. Rituals are to please these divine beings.

    Among the various schools of Hindu philosophy, Samkhya , Yoga and Mimamsa while not rejecting either the Vedas or the Brahman, typically reject a personal God, creator God, or a God with attributes.
    These schools may reject the idea of a God, but they believe that the Vedas are infinite, authorless etc. The Samkhyakarika accepts the notion of higher selves or perfected beings but rejects the notion of God; but believes in the divine nature of Vedas. So how can you say that these schools are atheistic? They believe that Vedas are supernatural, even beyond the authority of God. This is not atheism at all.

    As for the Rishis, can you name a few examples?
    In my opinion they existed centuries ago.
    They aren't a valid example of atheism anymore.
     
  16. AKTodd

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    I'd say that there's a stigma but wouldn't go so far as to say there is active and ongoing conscious oppression such as is seen directed toward LGBT people.

    The US Constitution allows for freedom of religion, including having no religion. However, in practice the vast majority of the populatin is Christian and may either distrust or dislike unbelievers especially if they refuse to convert. But there aren't major organizations devoted to the cause of limiting or rolling back atheist rights.

    Partly this may be cultural, partly because we are more or less 'off the radar'.

    Todd
     
  17. Rydia

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2015
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hot Springs
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I lost one friend because she was posting judgy things about how "women should dress like women" and some stuff about homosexuality being an "abomination" and she didn't like what I had to say about it, but that was more about my views on her religious beliefs than about me being an atheist.

    Have had a few arguments with friends in the past on the subject, but not friendship ending type arguments.

    In general, most of my close friends are fairly accepting of my being an atheist, even though they don't agree with it, much more so than they had been early in our friendship.

    ---------- Post added 31st Jan 2016 at 12:59 PM ----------

    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "intrinsic value." As for redemption. While I certainly believe there is no such thing as a human without flaws, I don't subscribe to the idea that man is a sinner by nature in need of redemption.

    If I do something I feel I need to redeem myself for, then either I choose to live with it or I choose to try and redeem myself. I don't need or want anyone else's validation in this regard.

    ---------- Post added 31st Jan 2016 at 01:05 PM ----------

    I don't believe there are "good people" and "bad people." I believe every person has the capacity for good and evil.

    My view of what constitutes good vs. bad actions comes from many sources and sometimes changes over time. It is based on what I have learned in a lifetime of experiences from various sources and may change as my life experiences change and I learn new things about the world and gain new perspective.

    ---------- Post added 31st Jan 2016 at 01:12 PM ----------

    I suppose it depends on how you define "oppressed." In general, I think Americans are more accepting of atheists now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. There was a time when I was afraid to tell anyone I was an atheist, because many people have a very hostile attitude towards atheist, calling us "devil worshipers" and basically viewing atheist as some kind of deviants.

    Today, while I feel there are still certain people who will judge me, dislike me and possible discriminate against me for being an atheist, I don't really fear revealing that information the way I once did.

    Overall, I think American mainstream society still caters or in some cases panders to the Christian majority, but I don't really feel oppressed. I think Muslims or anyone perceived to be Muslim probably have the hardest row to hoe in terms of religion related persecution in American today, mostly due to the perception of Islam being linked to terrorism.
     
  18. Gaysibling

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I can't say I feel oppressed. I think it would be different if I lived in a very religious country such as Iran or the US. I remember a friend who lived many years in the US who said coming out as atheist was far tougher than coming out as gay.

    Here in Aotearoa/New Zealand most people don't really care about religion one way or the other. In my circle being religious is generally regarded as a bit odd/quaint. Most people I know don't set foot in a church/mosque/temple/synagogue from one year to the next...and when they do, more often than not, it's for a funeral.

    Even amongst those who have a religion, I see a general distaste towards "ostentatious" displays of belief. Religion, or the lack of it, doesn't really come up in conversation here...it is seen as more of a private, personal thing. It's on par I guess with tattoos or piercings, your business whether you have them, and you might discuss them with friends, but if you brought it up in casual conversation with strangers it would be considered a bit odd...."Uh, why are you telling me this ?"
     
    #198 Gaysibling, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  19. Libertino

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,195
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    This Side of the Enlightenment
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I find it interesting that so many people here are speaking of "moral authority" and "absolutes". The very "moral authority" of most mainstream religions completely and totally reject homosexuality and homosexuals. Choosing to ignore this rejection is incredibly subjective, is it not? So why are atheists called out for being "subjective" and "relative" when that is exactly what religious people who identify as LGBT must do in order to reconcile their beliefs with their sexuality?

    Clearly if you reject the moral authority of homosexuality being wrong according to your religion, you have recourse to reject any other principal of your religion as well. Think again about how "absolute" the morality you claim to adhere to is. For example, many Christians think they have license to completely write off the Old Testament. My own study of the Bible led me to believe that's utter malarkey and completely unjustifiable. One man's "absolute law" is another man's "subjective transient rule".
     
    #199 Libertino, Jan 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  20. GayPugs

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Underground
    I'm an atheist. I believe everything has logic behind it. Jesus may have been real. But if he was, he had no magical powers or connection to god. Yes, I do not capitalize god. My motto is:
    If you capitalize God why can't I capitalize Pug?

    Yes, I do capitalize Pug. But, when I look for a gf I don't look for an atheist non-racist non-sexist homosexual. I look for a non-racist non-sexist girl. I'm fine with dating religious people and they don't even have to be lesbian. I usually date bisexuals due to my gender fluidity, actually. I'm fine with dating anyone. My brother is all like, "I HATE religious people and I would never date nor like them!!!" I don't agree. I'd date a religious girl any day of the week (if I weren't taken). Basically, I'm fine with religious people as long as they don't let their religion get into their political views and they don't try to turn me religious. Thank you good night. *drops mike*