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People Against Feminism..

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by SillyGoose, May 11, 2016.

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  1. Libertino

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    Here's what one of the creators of "Whiteness History Month" had to say about it:

    'Whiteness History Month' launches at Portland Community College | KATU

    "This is not about shaming white people. It's really about providing a better understanding for all of us," said Craig Kolins, dean of instruction at PCC's Southeast Portland campus."This is an opportunity to dialogue about some of the tensions ... created because of the societal pressure of whiteness."

    Now, you can disagree with him or find the term "whiteness" problematic (two students quoted in the article said they agreed with teaching about what led to racism, but didn't like the label "whiteness"), but that does not equate with teaching that "all white people are racist". That is a spinning of the truth to support an agenda (that anti-white attitudes are rampant in colleges) and that is what I have a problem with here.

    I post on another forum where SJWs are rampant, though a number of them are not in college...they got their ideas from much the same source that you get your ideas: blogs, videos, articles...it doesn't all come from professors teaching SJW ideas.

    Anyway, this discussion of racism is getting quite off-topic so I'm probably not going to say much more about it, but I will continue to discuss the university/SJW issue if necessary.
     
    #121 Libertino, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  2. Gunsmoke

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    My apologies, in that case. Sorry, I get very defensive sometimes, it's just that a lot of men automatically treat me as a radical as soon as I say the world "feminist". Not that that is an excuse, but sorry anyway.

    Again, though: I know that racism isn't the point of this thread, so I'll keep it short, but that seems to me to be a radical minority group. From what I've seen from black BLM supporters is not anti-white attitudes, but, like feminism, an argument for equality.


    ---------- Post added 15th May 2016 at 10:08 AM ----------

    To my knowledge, socialism is far less radical. But in all fairness, communism is hardly the devil incarnate, which seems to be what capitalists love to portray it as. I've studied communism and whilst I am not saying that I agree with it, because I'm more of a socialist, the regimes in Soviet Russia etc were not true communism. That said, however, communism, as far as I'm concerned, would never work in practice. Look at the USSR: that was an attempt at communism which warped into something else entirely.
     
  3. beastwith2backs

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    What is "whiteness"? How does it cause societal pressure? Are whiteness and white people the same thing? They seem to equate them as the same thing. It's like there saying that just existing as a white person is harmful. Would this be acceptable if it was talking about people of colour? I follow a YouTube channel called "laughing at liberals" and the guy who runs it pretty much shows how things run at Portland community college. One of the leaders of whiteness history month, failed to give one specific example of actual racial bias on campus. There was another video where some participants were chanting something that creelishky sounded like a manifesto. This is shaming white people. Actions speak louder than words, and their words don't align with what they actually do. Tell me something isn't wrong here.

    Most of those people in SJW blogs are people who went to university and learned this stuff in SJW courses, like gender studies. Anita sarkeesian has a degree in gender studies, and so do a lot of radical feminists. That's where they get their ideas from. And their fans just vomit their ideas without question. And if you dare disagree with them, you're a misogynistic rape apologist. No questions asked. Very cult-like.

    The difference between SJW and anti-SJW circles is that anti-SJW's disagree sometimes,and that's okay, but SJWs don't. If you do, there's a whole fanbase ready to at talc with the same talking points over and over again.

    Admittedly, some people in the anti-SJW community pretty much just bash them and mock them (bearing, NakedApe), (well, if you saw the videos SJW youtubers do, you would do the same thing) but some actually make a coherent argument about why they are anti-feminist ( Sargon of Akkad, that guy T).

    But even if it's not such a widespread epidemic as you say, it's still a big enough problem to call out. Not that many anti-SJW's really paint it as an epidemic, but they do make it sound like it's serious. I guess I'm just a gullible teen.

    I'm getting a bit tired of this debate too, people who apparently support racism against whites clearly aren't ready to change their mind, which is scary, it's as if they are brainwashed into only thinking in one way and not considering the other... I don't mind being wrong, but it does hurt. If this debate did anything to me, well, it sorta made me think about what do I even really stand for? And how do I know I'm not being brainwashed while claiming that other people are? Sooo much thinking, it hurts my head!
     
  4. Libertino

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    The questions about what defines "whiteness" are not questions I can answer; this isn't my project or my "history month". The quote made it seem as if "whiteness" was being defined as a bias toward white people that fostered racism and discrimination against non-white people, not the quality of being white in general. But that's only from what I read--if indeed it is a condemnation of being white in general, then obviously we have a problem, because there is nothing inherently wrong with being white.

    All sides of this issue are coming off as incredibly impassioned and blinded by that passion. The very notion of "laughing at liberals" sort of illustrates my point perfectly: it's not about a reasoned discussion, it's about painting one side as evil, as the enemy that needs to be vanquished, and acting as if nothing they say can ever have any value or carry any sort of weight. One extreme side telling me the other side is extreme will fall on deaf ears. It's extremists shouting about extremists. Biased people calling other people biased. It's fruitless, it's pointless, and it's not a discourse.

    People should not be silenced--that's my only real issue here. You are free to be as extreme as you like about any issue, extremely feminist, extremely anti-SJW, whatever it may be. As long as you are not advocating shutting up people whom you disagree with, then I do not have a problem. If so-called "SJW"s on campuses are trying to have opposing opinions shut down, then obviously I am completely against that. If the argument of the other side is threatening you, then make your own argument better. People on all sides could benefit from doing so.
     
    #124 Libertino, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  5. Secrets5

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    In that case, maybe they should make a university class* [not necessarily a degree] that has to be attended so that students can argue whatever they want [maybe once every two weeks or something]. And be encouraged to argue points they don't agree with. If that was a class, I'd have fun annoying myself with it.

    *Feminists are saying gender studies should be made compulsory but I'm not sure that's most beneficial if it's turning people who take that course into man-haters [not saying that's everybody, but that's what I seem to be hearing a lot of].

    Sorry, going off topic. Going to university next September so my mind's kind of in that direction at the minute. On that note, I wonder how me taking sociology and English literature A-level has shaped my views on the matter of feminism. I mean, before these two classes, I knew very little about the world, seriously.
     
  6. Libertino

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    Being in the English and Philosophy departments myself, I've studied rhetoric, argument, logic--all that jazz--for years (I was also involved in debate club in high school). Unfortunately it was all elective--other than some cursory rhetoric and oratory in AP English Comp, students who didn't study the subjects I did probably wouldn't learn these same tactics to the same extent, but given the amount of bad arguments, hyberbole, and misinformation out there, it's something anyone could benefit from. Especially the bit about arguing something you don't agree with--it really gives you a chance to experience the other side. Perhaps then we wouldn't all be so easily driven into these extreme camps where every issue is us vs. them.
     
  7. Gunsmoke

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    This, whilst not really on topic, is certainly interesting. Personally, I don't have a problem with safe spaces. After all, this very website is a safe space. I think that if people want a place to go where they don't have to worry about being harrassed etc, they are perfectly entitled to that. As a bisexual, for example, it's not uncommon to come across people who believe that I just want attention or whatever, and even though I've come across someone like that on here, it's nice to be generally accepted.

    I don't, however, agree with the sort of safe space that you seem to describe: where people are silenced/interrupted etc for voicing their opinions. Then again, if somebody enters a safe space with the intention of contradicting the beliefs of the people in said spaces, they should really expect to be shouted down. Like those Tumblr anti-SJWs who go through tags such as "feminism" and "LGBTQ+" only for the sake of disputing and then get shot down by activists. I'm not saying that this makes it right; it's just common sense.
     
    #127 Gunsmoke, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  8. beastwith2backs

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    I think the whole " laughing at liberals" thing isn't bad. It's just laughing at clearly stupid, possibly mentally ill people, do and say clearly stupid things. It's exactly the same as when someone on here posts some stupid shit that a conservative said or did in the news section of EC. Nothing wrong there, right? And also, anti-SJW's aren't exactly extreme because a lot of them have gone on record saying that of SJW's could actually give some evidence to their claims, especially feminists, they would change their mind about this whole...issue...thingy...problem? On the other most extreme SJW's have probably never thought of the thought of changing their mind, I guess, based on what they say. Most anti SJW's just attack the really really really DUMB liberals( trigglypuff, milo Stewart, Gazi Kodzo), so I guess that's why they make fun of them a lot.

    Everyone has some sort of bias, so what are you getting when you say that you won't listen to biased people? I only listen to people who lay out their arguments objectively. Anti SJW's do this FAR more than SJW's so I like them more. SJW's on the other hand...god help their souls. And brains.

    Nobody is trying to silence anybody. However SJWS advocate PC culture, which has pretty much been on its way of ruining free speech, and people who disagree with them have the "wrong opinions". Yup. You read that right. I'm not afraid of SJW's opinions, most of them are easily debunk able and stupid, so....nothing to worry about usually. Until they make the rare good point and then....
     
  9. Capricorn98

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    People aren't against feminism as a whole. its feminism in the west that people are against.

    rape culture in the west? oh shut up

    rape culture in places like the middle east? yes, unfortunately

    feminism has served its purpose in the west and we don't need it anymore, for the most part

    where we need feminism is where women really are second class citizens
     
  10. beastwith2backs

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    Basically what i've been trying to get at. But apparently pointing out that women in other parts are second class citizens is a logical fallacy *sigh*
     
  11. Libertino

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    It is a logical fallacy. It's called the fallacy of relative privation:

    B happens more frequently, is more dangerous, or causes more harm than A.
    Therefore A can be ignored.

    The idea that because people have it worse elsewhere, that means problems here can be ignored or don't matter. If you refuse to acknowledge this fallacy, then there's no point in discussing it further. You can't have a discussion about something that a person refuses to understand.

    ---------- Post added 15th May 2016 at 09:02 PM ----------

    Everyone has some sort of bias, but they don't acknowledge it. They portray themselves as unbiased and attempt to condemn others for being bias while not recognizing their own bias.
     
    #131 Libertino, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  12. Gunsmoke

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    Do you really want me to bring up the thing about LGBTQ+ rights in other countries? Because I will, because it is still relevant.
     
  13. 2Sides

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    Feminism is a load of sh*t. Do one if you feel insulted.

    There is a difference between feminism and gender equality. Feminism is about women going mental and demanding all sorts of rights/privileges because they have a stupid vagina.

    Feminists can't admit both men and women have it difficult.
     
    #133 2Sides, May 16, 2016
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  14. biAnnika

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    LOL, I think there are plenty of us here who are counterexamples to this load of self-importance and generalization.

    I look at it this way (and I really wish I knew the source):

     
  15. 2Sides

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    LOL you're full of it.

    So what if women are abused and have problems? Who doesn't? You women need to get over it. Life is tough. Stop being such puss pots. Grow up. People already treat women leniently than men, so shut up.

    Animals are treated worse than women.
     
  16. Magical Me

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    Women have NEVER had equal rights. They probably never will be fully equal to men. So they need feminism in their lives to fight for equality. Women do not, "need to get over it" because it's something that needs to be addressed. Sure both men and women get abused, but I'd imagine it is MUCH harder for a woman to get out of an abusive relationship, because let's face it, most men are bigger than women. Especially in abusive relationships. And there are also same sex abusive relationships? Women need feminism, and I guess you as someone who never has been a woman, Will never understand.
     
  17. 2Sides

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    Women want better treatment. Not equal. Just admit it.
     
  18. Libertino

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    Ah yes, "just admit it". The be-all-end-all of arguments. You have truly defeated any argument that may come your way. It's amazing philosophers didn't come across this panacea of argument centuries ago.
     
  19. Magical Me

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    Yes, yes. Women don't want equal pay, or to not be treated as an object for men's pleasure, or to have the same opportunitiesas men. No, women obviously just want, "Better treatment". Definitely!!
     
  20. 2Sides

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    Oh here comes Mr I can read between the lines and no one else can. OMGAWD I'm so amazed by your intellectual ability to type so much crap that has absolutely no relevant in the real world except on an academic dissertation that has as much use as a toilet paper.
     
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