New, lost and confused

Prof37.....Hello and a great big LGBTQIA+ welcome to your first Empty Closets post! I can remember the first post that I made on EC. I was desperate for help and I got the help that night that I so needed. I hope that we can help you in the same way that I received help. The most important thing to remember about Empty Closets is that we do care about you! We're very glad that you found us here on EC and hope that we can answer questions, give you support and provide a place to vent (as long as it's not violent!) when that becomes necessary!

*****There are 18 different sub-forums here that you can check out and join in the conversations or start your own thread/conversation. When I first joined Empty Closets I was in need of a lot of support and encouragement and I found it here…EC is a safe place. I hope that you'll find good things here too! Folks here will talk to you and share...you don't have to be afraid of asking questions...we're glad to have you! Empty Closets is all about making connections and giving LGBT folks a voice when they otherwise don't have one in their day-to-day lives. I can relate to the problems caused by religious issues. I wasn't raised in a church, but came to faith on my own. When I finally accepted that I am and always have been gay, my last conflict was my faith. I spent a long time studying the Bible, in particular studying the six primary passages that have to do with the LGBTQ community in the original languages. I read books that addressed the topic from different positions and finally came to several conclusions. 1) The Bible does not condemn same-sex relationships as we know them today simply because what we have today did not exist in the First Century AD. 2) Most passages in the Bible that have been used to condemn the LGBT Community are in fact talking about sex as an act of worship to pagan gods...which was quite common in the First Century AD. 3) Some passages...the story of Sodom & Gomorrah in particular...have been mistranslated to mean something they did not mean when they were originally written. A pastor friend of mine (Yes, I have pastor friends!), made a comment once that I think is really important: "The Bible can never be made to say something today which it did not say when it was written!" I have a great deal more information about how the Bible does not condemn the LGBTQ Community and will provide that to you if you would like...just ask! My own path to acceptance also involved internalized homophobia. I had been out for a time in my college years, but the death of my boyfriend/soulmate devastated me and caused my to turn my back on my sexuality for over 40 years. Those years were filled with depression and self-hate. I even managed to force myself into a state of memory-loss over his death and lost all memory of being out or even having a boyfriend. However, subconsciously I knew that there was something wrong. The depression and self-hate just kept getting worse. I eventually began to realize what the problem was, but I was married, had children and grandkids and I was not willing to accept that I was not straight. All of which just made everything worse. On the night of my final crisis I came close to making a terrible decision, but the wonderful people here on Empty Closets helped me that night and instead I came out and finally accepted that I am and always have been gay. Over a period of several years the memories of my time in college came back and my time with Tim, my boyfriend also returned. Reliving his passing was again terrible, but this time I had Empty Closets and by that time I also had connected with an outstanding therapist, so even though it was difficult, I was able to endure the loss and move on. Now I can look back and treasure the time that I had with Tim. I'm sharing all of this with you because I want you to know that even when we have been battered by rejection from religions that seem bent on hurting us and telling us that we are broken...that we are not broken, that we are as we were meant to be! We do not have to accept societies' insistence that we follow their rules...that everybody has to be heteronormative (such a long word! ) We can be who we really are and that is OK! I finally accepted myself when I was 64 years old and my life has been so much better ever since then. You have the chance to do it at a much younger age and that is just wonderful! Remember...you are a part of our LGBTQ Family and we do care!


Some info on how to navigate EC:
You said you've been a member for a long time, so these directions may not be necessary, but I decided to go ahead and include them as I normally do in my "Greeting Post" just in case! So here goes...
*****When you have made at least 10 posts on various threads you will be able to post messages on a member's Profile Page. Just click on a member's Avatar Picture and then click on "Profile Page" in the dialogue box that pops up. You'll then be on their Profile Page and there will be a box that says: "Write Something" When you have been on EC for a few weeks and have made at least 50 posts on various forums, you can apply for Full Membership. A Full Member can send Private Messages (PM) to other Full Members and share personal contact info. Right now you can only send a PM to a Staff Member as that is always possible. Here is a quote from the Full Membership information forum:

*****To be eligible you must be a member of Empty Closets for a minimum of two weeks, and have a minimum of 50 posts. These posts must be across numerous forums (Fun & Games does not contribute to post count), and consistently posted across a minimum of two weeks. You wouldn't be eligible, for example, if you registered, had no activity for two weeks, and then returned to post 50 times on your 14th day of membership.

*****Well, as I said, we're very glad you found us! If you have any questions at all, you can always send me a Private Message.

.....David

 

Prof37.....What you have said is true to a degree. 1) In some past societies a man's virility was measured by the number of his children. Whether this had something to do with the negative attitude about men with men I don't know. I've always found it interesting that so little is said about women with women in comparison to men with men. 2) Yes, modern Christians do not follow the "Laws of Moses" as listed in the Old Testament. Many people tend to think of the "Ten Commandments" from the OT, but there were actually 613 laws that the Israelites were expected to follow. I again find it interesting that people will "cherry-pick" a few of these laws and expect others to follow them and ignore the rest. A Jewish friend of mine in college told me that his parents made it very clear that they (and he) were expected to follow all the laws or they might as well follow none of them! 3) The First Century AD Greeks and Romans had some sexual practices that are different than what exists today. A mature, middle-class to wealthy man often had a young boy as a companion as well as mistress(es). The "blood-line" and inheritance, especially in Roman families was very important. Roman men often were very careful about how many children, in particular male children to which they had to pass on the family fortune. Too many - sometimes merely more than one - could mean a terrible fight at the death of the Patr (Father) of the family or even sometimes the older son "eliminating" any younger competitors. Having mistresses and the younger boy "companion" allowed the man to have intimate relations without the danger of too many children that could inherit, as children not of his "formal" wife were not eligible.
The ancient Greek and Roman worlds looked at relationships far differently than we do today. Pederasty was the widespread Greek practice of sexual relationships between adult men and adolescent boys. This custom, attested throughout Archaic and Classical Greece, seems to have become widespread by the eighth century BCE. It probably had its origins in the almost exclusively male nature of public life and served a social function as a means of formalizing ties between different age groups in the citizen body. Some authors (especially Plato and Xenophon) idealized relationships between men and boys as a form of tutelage with no necessary physical component. So far as we can tell, however, these relationships usually were sexual. The Romans, who seemed to like to copy the Greeks in much of their society, copied the Greeks in this practice also.
4) Ok...I know you didn't have a fourth point! Anyway, I'd like to add that the passages in the New Testament that are used to condemn the LGBTQ Community are also on very shaky ground. In fact it's so shaky that I believe (and many, many others also) that they have been outright mistranslated. There is an abundance of evidence to establish that these passages are actually speaking about "Temple Prostitution" It was a rather common practice in the First Century AD for temples of pagan deities to have both men and women priests/priestesses who "helped" the worshippers in their reverence though acts of intimacy in the temples. The early Christians found these activities to be an abomination. This is what these passages are speaking about. Those passages have been translated that way because society has wanted them to condemn any kind of same-sex activity and until recently no one has been courageous enough to point out the error to the church who doesn't want to hear it.
5) Ok, I've gone this far...so I guess I'll go ahead and bring up Sodom & Gomorrah...two cites so filled with evil that God destroyed them with only Lot and his family escaping. We are told that the sin of Sodom was that the men of the city wanted to have homosexual relations with the two men (angels) that God sent to warn Lot to leave. We even have the word "Sodomy" in our dictionaries which means sex between two men. Indeed the people of Sodom did want to attack the two men, but we're talking about gang-rape here. What's is even more significant is that the people of Sodom were not upholding the almost-sacred law of hospitality. This well-understood tradition stated that visitors were to be welcomed, fed and cared for..."fed the fatted calf", etc.
I said that these passages have been twisted...well here we go...let's look at

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49 "Behold this was the iniquity (sin) of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread and abundance of idleness was in her and her daughters (Gomorrah & other cities), neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy"
50 "And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good"

As you can see it had absolutely NOTHING to do with homosexuality...not even mentioned. Just in case someone tries to say that "abomination" means gay sex...it doesn't. The Hebrew words "towbah or toebah" are what have been translated as "abomination". Those words refer to idol worship, which was rampant in Sodom and Gomorrah. Also, the "tradition/law" of hospitality was one of the most sacred of the traditions of the Middle East during this era. Visitors/travelers were always greeted and cared for...never attacked, or in this case be in danger of gang rape!

So it becomes obvious that people who tell us that S & G were destroyed because of H. either do not know the truth or are twisting, even changing the meaning of the story to fit their preconceived agenda. I kinda don't like saying things that bluntly...it sort of sounds like a "conspiracy nut”! But I see no other options.

An interesting note…the word “homosexual” was invented in 1869 and was first used in the Bible in 1946. Several members of the translation committee that used the word have since stated that it was an incorrect translation and it’s use was influenced by a group of ultra conservative members.
.....David