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Never-ending desire to be straight?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by sguyc, Dec 11, 2016.

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  1. snarky baboon

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    So true^^ and this has less to do with women and more to do with gender equality. You've mentioned how a man is valued based on how attractive he is to women. Society does say that. What can this man offer a woman? People are more than just man or woman and masculine or feminine. Stop pigeon holing yourself and everyone else. Women became part of the discussion when you decided to stereotype them. You've made every excuse available for the people who disrespect you but you refuse to make an excuse for yourself and others who live alternatively to just be happy and content.
     
  2. sguyc

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    Both of you are saying really really classic women things. "Women might mess around with "assholes" but they won't marry them!". Who wants to be someone's sloppy seconds? That right there is lack of value. That right there says to me "don't be the dope that waits around for women to "mature", be the asshole that gets women when they are young and looking for assholes, and then get them again when everyone grows up and they want a husband".



    As to the nice guy thing. You realize the "nice" guys want the same exact thing as "assholes" (we might as well use the terms betas and alphas because thats the feel of it) they just choose the respectable path, the one that women tell them to take (which is a false path), just be friends with her! Then she will come to like you. No one gets angry, that is such a silly stereotype. What happens is the guy feels ashamed that his "friend" viewed him as sexually unattractive and so the guy no longer feels right or good hanging around this girl. The girl interprets that as "being mean" cause the guy no longer wants to devote his unreflected attention onto to her.

    Also in this vast majority of these "scenarios" the girl KNOWS the guy likes her the whole time but keeps him around to get validation from him and keep him yipping at her heals like a puppy dog. And they know the guy likes them the whole time but they ignore the subject to get validation.

    Yes people can be ANYTHING they want it just so happens the vast majority are straight and enjoy their gender roles which makes me the outcast.
     
  3. Creativemind

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    You have a lot of issues to work out. Just saying. I don't even understand why you want to be straight if you hate women and women's behavior so much. It's just easier with the same sex.
     
  4. snarky baboon

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    You're an oddball and a negative Nancy with an affinity for misinterpretation, I'll give you that. You really need to talk to someone who knows you and cares about you. Or do a walk about. My final answer to your original question is now a hard yes. You hate women too much to not move past the fact that you can't be the man for one.
     
  5. sguyc

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    I don't hate women? I am just describing some of the kinds of behavior they display? Unless you think women are angels or something?
     
  6. Creativemind

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    No, you're stereotyping their behavior. This would be like if I said all men are rapists, assholes, and only care about sex but not relationships just because 90% of the straight men in my life have acted entitled to me. I would think it was sexist toward men if anyone said this, and I also think the same if anyone stereotyped women.
     
  7. HappyGirlLucky

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    There is an extremely misogynistic community on the internet dedicated to protecting sexism and brainwashing men to objectify women (not even 1950s style objectification, but literally treating us as less than animals). I won't mention the name of the community so no one even looks it up out of curiosity and ruins their holidays, but I have a feeling OP has spent his fair share of time around them. The things he says sound exactly like the things they throw around there, he even uses their terminology. The "sloppy seconds" shaming part I found particularly classy. :thumbsup:

    OP, I hope you are not part of the community I mentioned or this will of course fall entirely on deaf ears, since I am not a super alpha straight male and therefore entirely without value.

    The majority of my friends are straight women, and not a single one of them ever hooked up with these "alpha males", and not for a lack of possibilities. None of them simply ever found annoying jerks attractive. They just dated and ended up with very sweet guys who are exactly like what Creativemind and snarky baboon have been telling you straight women want, and they are very happy together, some in relationships that have lasted over a decade.

    Now, to the actual topic: none of my friends ever gossiped about gay couples or laughed about them behind their backs around me even before I came out, and I spent close to three decades in denial. We have always had much better things to do and gay couples were always seen as just as valid as straight ones. I live in a more liberal and secular country, granted, but it still goes to show that people can and do genuinely respect gay couples just as much as they respect straight couples.

    Times change and people change with it. Just a few decades ago interracial couples raised eyebrows, or worse, but hardly anyone sees them as less than same-race couples today. I know it is difficult when you feel depressed about life, but please consider the idea that some people really do see your relationship as just as valid as Jim and Jill's down the street. I really hope you can find a way to accept yourself either way. :slight_smile:
     
  8. John C89

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    I do get OP point on some stuff. Me myself, had been struggling with some of this issues, and I think what most gay men go thorugh is trying to align everything. I have a theory that depression is caused by something that isn't fitting inside yourself, for anybody.
    Polemics aside, yes, straight women do lime the alpha stereotypical guy, that in many ways is a douche, careless, egoccentric person. It's impossible to deny that, it's even on movies (not Disney, but take a look on James Dean). But here comes the interesting thing: I tend to believe that the attraction they feel, is something they hate, bc some of them know these guys are bad for them. But they can't help it. Probably it's the same for us, gay men. Many of us, especially in the beginning, some even after years and years, do want to be straight and with women. Yet we can't. I think this could be a good analogy about women behaviour with alpha guys, and the nice one who don't get anything.
    And yes....for some people, the identity is so attached to these values, that they will never be happy, since many contradictions between what we see/
    and what we feel, make us a tickling bomb. Ultimately I'm starting to be more stoic and niihilist about things, so maybe I'm not the person to give you advices on how to get rid of this. And yes, sometimes it's hard to believe in therapists if you need to be logically convinced, and sometimes they just play the 'change your point of view' card, ignoring some facts, and a lot of deep other issues going on. These are my two cents. Stay well, as long as you can
     
  9. Creativemind

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    Really? You're judging what women like based on movies and the media? Does that mean you also think all women are size zeros with perfect bodies, slim waists, and D+ breasts? Hate it to break it to you but media isn't real life. It's purposely meant to be fake to attract viewers.

    I don't any straight women who like douchy alpha males unless they've been abused and don't know how to break the cycle. All women want a nice guy, It's just that being nice is the minimum requirement. JUST being nice won't get you a girl. You have to have good looks and compatibility as well.

    Again, this is like saying that all straight men are rapists because all straight men I've seen engage in pro rape behavior. Is it right for me to want to avoid straight men because I feel that all men in my heart secretly want to rape or harm me?

    Fact is that there are more men who are rapists than there are women who want to date douchy guys. That's a statistical fact. But if women said this about men then we're the "wrong/sexist" ones.
     
  10. John C89

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    The movie thing was just an additional example. Maybe the 'nice' concept is just very subjective, as some people thing one behaviour is nice, while others don't. I didn't really saw in my life many nice guys getting chances....they got chances when they were able to make fun of girls, when they got that confidence thing, that dominant behaviour. But the thing is, is far more common for douches to have this confidence, than the typical nice guy. So when you need to make a decision, the women I've saw in my life or I lived with, they go for the confident guy, even when he is really, really bad. It's hard to be both confident and nice. All sorts of people turns into assholes when they get power. And I've realized, that sometimes all you can offer is being nice..maybe because of trauma, lots of issues in the past, and bc some people are broken for life. In a world without empathy, with liquid relationships, being nice is turning gradually into an exception. But I think OP needs to solve other issues he is having now....the gender roles are harmful even when your orientation means you don't need to worry about it.
     
  11. sguyc

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    I agree with what you are saying. Girls like guys with power. One form of power is the ability to display that you are more valuable than the people around you by making fun of them and being "douchey". I don't know what these people are smoking. Stereotypes exist for a reason. They weren't made from nothing. Why is it such a big deal to say women like dominant with a streak of asshole-ness (confidence and the ability to display value). Yes some men get by with just being nice, but you NEED to be good looking if that is the case. Like with myself I had better looks than most guys so despite not being a "player" girls would show interest, be interested in chatting with me, despite my passive "nice" behavior. But if you don't have any physical edge then you need other characteristics to stand out as a male. This idea that human females are special and always choose the special-est nicest guy is stupid. No VALUES being nice. People value power not "niceness". Niceness is for throw away virtue signals. "Oh hes so nice isn't he kesley!" "ya becky is totally nice, he so sweet".








    I agree with your thinking about depression and internal conflicts. When your externals line up with your internals it is far easier to be mentally healthy and feel confident and good about your life. Unfortunately the vast majority of gays and transsexual internals do not line up with their externals. You have gay men trying to be feminine or trying to roleplay feminine sexual practices (bottoming) despite being given masculine bodies. You have this same thing with transsexuals except at an even more damaging and extreme level. Theres a lot of conflict. Sure if you are good at maintaining a multifacetted image to people where during the day you are a typical confident masculine man just like any other and during the night you are taking dick and being like a submissive girl, if you can balance that then great. But a lot of people (like me) struggle because they want a more pure alignment of their internals and externals.
     
  12. Mirko

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