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More sexuality privileges beyond straight privilege?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by RainbowVomiter, May 1, 2014.

?

Read the checklists. Do you think these are helpful privilege/oppression axes?

  1. YES for monosexual privilege

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. MAYBE for monosexual privilege

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. NO for monosexual privilege

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  4. YES for sexual privilege

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  5. MAYBE for sexual privilege

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  6. NO for sexual privilege

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
  7. YES for romantic privilege

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  8. MAYBE for romantic privilege

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  9. NO for romantic privilege

    4 vote(s)
    36.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. RainbowVomiter

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  2. ChromeNerd

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    Femme lesbians have these problem as much as bisexuals do. I actually had an easier time coming out as bisexual. When I tried to come out as gay everyone thought I was either joking or going through a phase. When I came out as bi most people didn't question it.
     
  3. An Gentleman

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    Ah, yes. The Oppression Olympics at work. Privilege politics are an excellent way to turn people into unmotivated blobs, make them feel guilt for things they aren't guilty for, and for the "oppressed" to try and lord that status over those who dissent with them. They aren't indicative of all individuals; they basically serve as a list of bitching.

    There are cases where pulling the "oppression card" would be justified.
    "My daughter has been kicked out of the military for being trans."
    "My brother was executed because he was gay."
    This is actual discrimination.

    "Some people didn't take my sexuality seriously!"
    "Check your privilege!" I can't believe I'm seeing this phrase outside of Tumblr (i.e. the land of social justice idiots). This is not really discrimination; this is a mere case of simple ignorance. We must remember that most people don't know too much about LGBTs.
     
    #3 An Gentleman, May 1, 2014
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  4. RainbowVomiter

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    Looks like the ones who agreed didn't explain their opinions.

    ---------- Post added 2nd May 2014 at 09:59 AM ----------

    I also felt coming out bi was easier, although my parents did question it. They said I just need to date boys to "get over" it and that I'm "statistically likely" to end up with a boy. I know that's not acceptance of bisexuality, it's conditional acceptance, but I do think it would hurt more if I was not even attracted to men.

    And I don't really understand how you can say gays & lesbians have undeniably more privilege when so many polysexuals are in straight relationships.

    ---------- Post added 2nd May 2014 at 10:03 AM ----------

    I felt like these lists were just rehashes of straight privilege, dressed up as across-the-board benefits for all mono/sexual/romantics, helping pit non straight people against each other.
     
  5. Gates

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    I don't think that monosexual privilege is absolute at all. If you're gay/ lesbian, your orientation is just as likely to be questioned by "normative" society as if you're polysexual. Also, if you're a straight transman or woman, you don't necessarily even get the "straight privilege."

    Sexual privilege is real. I don't judge asexuals but I don't understand them much, either. If I'm that ignorant, I'd assume that many people would be all-out judgmental.

    Romantic privilege, meh... I don't see that it arises independently of the aforementioned.
     
  6. Sarcastic Luck

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    This so much.
     
  7. timo

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    Check.

    Although I couldn't help but vote YES at sexual privilege. Being asexual is easily misunderstood by a majority of people. But hey, neither can help it so you won't hear me complain. I don't like people whining about privilege.
     
  8. Pret Allez

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    While I can understand everyone's irritation around privilege politics, it is still a fact that parts of the gay and lesbian community have issues of distrust and exclusion unique to them that they need to work through, and the abusiveness dynamic is not in fact symmetrical.
     
  9. Sarcastic Luck

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    And within those communities, things are going to be different for each person. The reason why the privilege olympics pisses me off is that paints everyone with one broad brush, and segregates people further.

    A femme lesbian in a LGBT friendly family/community is going to have different issues from a femme lesbian in a LGBT unfriendly family/community.
     
  10. HuskyPup

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    I think maybe it's due to the asexual reproduction thing, how these people will just divide in half at some point, like giant amoebas, or the blob, and take over the world!

    But on a more serious note, I think we can all be 'repressed' to different degrees and in different ways, and that the path out of this is discussion, and understanding, as opposed to make it an oppression competition. I tend to se of more as a subjective, deeply individual, highly complex, case-by-case matter.
     
  11. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    I agree that monosexuals treat bisexuals TERRIBLY, but I think the privilege list is a far stretch because many gay/lesbians don't have them either.

    Here are a few I found from the list, based on my identity as a lesbian:

    "Society assures me that my sexual identity is real and that people like me exist."

    Uh....no. Sorry. Nobody has ever assured me that my sexual identity is real. I mean that's why all my straight friends, and even bi friends constantly shove men down my throat, tell me I'll eventually marry a man, take "my girlfriend" to mean "my close friend", tell me women can't be sexually satisfied without a man...etc. Hell, it was a bi girl who told me "I know you will be attracted to a man's body when you fall in love with one".

    "When I disclose my sexual identity to others, they believe it without requiring me to prove it (usually by disclosing my sexual and romantic history)."

    Read above. Not true at all. In fact in our society, women can have sex with a million women and still be considered "straight" or not believed as a lesbian.

    "I can feel sure that, upon disclosing my sexual identity, people accept that it’s my real/actual sexual identity (rather than assuming that I am lying or simply wrong)."

    Read number one.

    "I can choose to be in a polyamorous relationship without being accused of reinforcing stereotypes against my sexual-identity group."

    Actually, I don't find this true at all. Gay/lesbian people, especially men, are stereotyped of being promiscuous and being unable to be monogamous too (although I understand It's for different reasons, since bi people like both sexes and people are ignorant enough to take that as "Need both at once".

    "I can fairly easily find representations of people of my sexual-identity group and my lifestyle in the media and the arts. I encounter such representations without needing to look hard."

    Insert facepalm here.

    "I often encounter the word I use to identify myself in the media and the arts. When I hear or read it, I am far less likely to find it in the context of the denial of its existence."

    Nope sorry. All of the lesbian characters in the media aren't even taken seriously either; I've watched shows where people take "lesbian" to mean "needs to be cured by a dick". Yeah, that's totally not denial of It's existence.

    "I can find, fairly easily, reading material, institutions, media representations, etc. which give attention specifically to people of my sexual identity."

    Um....no. Unless you're talking about straight people.

    "I am more likely to feel comfortable being open about my sexual identity at work."

    ....What? Are you serious...?

    I do agree on some of the privileges here, and I understand that I have it better than some other people, but that doesn't excuse making assumptions and playing the victim card.
     
  12. Milonov

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    IMO, gay couples should only recieve a little less priviliges regarding families because they can't have kids naturally. Otherwise, yeah: two people living together are two people living together. Equality!
     
  13. RainbowVomiter

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    Hmm, I googled it and found this argument against sexual privilege.

    ---------- Post added 2nd May 2014 at 02:57 PM ----------

    Yeah, this is what I think. Though I think that lumping all monosexuals together under one privilege misses the reasons why gays & lesbians are biphobic, differently from straights.

    ---------- Post added 2nd May 2014 at 02:58 PM ----------

    So many bisexuals forget that they can be homophobic and lesbophobic, too.
     
    #13 RainbowVomiter, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  14. Pret Allez

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    I understand your concern, and it's a well-motivated one to have. I just get worried that trying to shut down the discourse of privilege as divisive is really just a way to stop talking about problematic dynamics between gay or lesbian folks and multisexuals. Just as people have claimed "privilege" is a catch-all way of dismissing a person outright based on his group membership, I would also argue that "oppression Olympics" is a catch-all way of dismissing a person who raises a concern about abusive or discriminatory behavior coming from outside his community.

    One can talk about these dynamics without painting everyone with a broad brush.

    I agree with you that straight and gay biphobia are qualitatively different. However, I worry a lot about how often this argument is made. The idea seems to be that gay and lesbians who are biphobic need to be absolved of being abusive and creating problems of community cohesion, because when they do it, "at least they aren't as bad as some straight people can be." In other words, I strongly believe the differences are a red herring and not really worth talking about. Regardless of the form gay and lesbian biphobia takes, it happens, and they should know better, being members of a marginalized community themselves
     
    #14 Pret Allez, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  15. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Yeah, I mean I don't really disagree that monos have privileges over polysexual people, but at the same time It's hard to lump them together in a set since straight people still have privileges over gay people too.

    I know a lot of gay people are really biphobic, and that's terrible. We should discuss that and bring these kinds of things up, but when we try to undermine or assume the struggles gay/lesbian folk face, it doesn't help much.
     
  16. RainbowVomiter

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    i swear this person does not think single parents exist
     
  17. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    Wow what. Not only does that erase single parenting, yeah, this only applies to straight people.

    Since when is a gay relationship promoted as a safe place to raise children or make it easier to adopt them? It's a lot harder for a gay couple to adopt. Just recently when I was reading the newspaper there was an article describing how same-sex parenting harms children.
     
  18. Sarcastic Luck

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    It also erases people who aren't able to conceive.
     
  19. Gen

    Gen
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    The problem with privilege in sexuality is that generalizations in the LGBTQ community don't hold as much weight as they can in regards to racial privilege. At the heart of racial privilege lies the idea of privilege appointed within society based on skin pigmentation. This is a practice and ideal that can be found undeniably across many cultures and throughout history. The same systematic process of identifying social privilege cannot be applied to the LGBTQ community because of the variety and subjectivity that this community offers.

    For instance, lets take a monosexual and a polysexual of any random sexual orientation: Linda is a lesbian and Britney is bisexual. They both frequently LGBTQ organizations and meetings, create accounts on dating websites, and all areas in which sexual privilege might claim that they would be treated differently based on their sexuality. Based on this scenario which would be treated the most favorably?

    Though maybe we should backtrack for a moment. We've only described their sexuality. We forgot to recognize that Britney is feminine and Linda is butch. We didn't notice that Britney is a person of color and Linda is Caucasian. All examples of characteristics that additionally have an extreme effect on stance within the LGBTQ community.

    The issue that arises when the idea of privilege is spread too thinly is that it loses it's applicability within a social demographic. Racial privilege is based on a simplistic and polarizing characteristic; this is why you can draw a line on the racial spectrum and designate where privilege lies, racially, within our society. Likewise, wealth is a simplistic and polarizing characteristic. Nationality, simplistic and polarizing. On a sociological level in order to establish privilege within a demographic it must be based on a characteristic that is both simplistic and polarizing enough that it can be applied to a populous collectively.

    Orientation is only simplistic and polarizing in regards to the establishment of cis-heterosexual privilege and orientational minorities; however, orientations under the blanket group of LGBTQ or not largely polarizing nor simplistic enough for an accurate designation of privilege to be accepted.
     
  20. RainbowVomiter

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    ^^very nice wording. i wanted to say something like that but didn't have the words. it's far too muddy to be clear-cut privilege-or-not-privilege