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Mission to Mars

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by BiCavalier, Oct 30, 2024.

  1. BiCavalier

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    I ust had a pretty frustrating conversation about sex with my wife ladt night. We had an open agenda and at least there was an agreement to increase frequency with some ideas of how to achieve it. However, it was obvious when we got into details, that her idea of frequency fell very far short of my idea. Also as this was an open agenda, I was hoping for a more diverse and specific dialogue. I offered a few sub topics and got nothing but crickets. I feel like getting her into my space is like her building a rocket and meeting me on Mars for a cup of tea. I hardly know where to begin. I know that I need to continue to open open. I need to accept that baby steps are neccessary. However, I am really worried that we are never going to have that cup of tea together. Looks like I have another new topic for therapy on Friday.:cry:
     
  2. tallslenderguy

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    Ah gee BiCavalier, i'm sorry. i'm not sure whether or not i should write any more than that, since what you express reads/feels like an impasse to me and not sure if this road leads to a mutual destination. <3
     
  3. BiCavalier

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    Thanks. I think that I can live with not making it to Mars as long as we can make some steady progress forward with a good sized leap from where we are now. I just feel like we took a giant step backwards as sexual partners and are nearly starting from scratch after 25 years. Confidence is a big struggle for her and the way she expressed herself yesterday showed a big lack of confidence.

    BTW, from my end, none of this has anything to do with my bisexuality. I feel like that is the same for her, because none of what was discussed was related in any way. That said, the absence of any dialogue about my bisexuality from her in the last several months leads me to believe that she definitely has some hang-ups with it. Though I do believe that she has accepted it.

    Always glad to hear your thoughts TSG, and you never have to pull punches. I can take it.

    Cheers
     
  4. tallslenderguy

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    Good enough :slight_smile: i'll preface that i don't presume to know 'the answer,' just throwing my thoughts into the mix, sort of an alien from another universe (to continue with your space analogy lol).

    Parsing it down to just one element: "frequency of sex." To me, the "impasse" is not a fault or deficit with either of you, but derives from the/a traditional notion (expectation?) of many intimate relationships: i.e. monogamy. i'll circle back to that, just centering what i see as the challenge.

    i imagine your conversation reversed. Your wife comes to you and 'the agenda' is to decrease frequency of sex. I.e., what makes one persons desire/need take precedence over another's. i also wonder if you are both already feeling compromised before you even reach a new compromise where one will end up feeling even more compromised if it changes?

    If we assume men are from Mars and women from Venus (i don't think that a universal truth... haha, punny), but for argument sake in this case... is there a planet that is neither Mars or Venus that will sustain both of your lives on equal footing? From my perspective, one of the foundational elements of sex is the connection, and hopeful bonding, of sexual need/desire. i do not want to have sex with anyone who does not want/need it as much as i do because connection of mutual desire is central to the act for me.

    But i know, that is me (though i think that is a factor that flies under the radar in a lot of relationships). What i do think is universal in a compromised relationship is it leaves both peoples needs wanting, and i think that builds up over time.

    To me, the solution is not changing the other person from either side (not saying you are trying to do that), but either entering a relationship in the first place where each has a good handle on their needs/wants and there is established compatibility. Yeah, i know, people change, but again i fly in the face of tradition that maybe the relationship needs to be altered to fit with those changes.

    Back to "monogamy." One possible change could be an open relationship where each gets what they want. Of course, that is not a simple proposition because there is more too a relationship than sex, and sex is way more than 'just' a physical act (IMO). i see one of the most common impediments to an open relationship, especially trying to introduce that after many years of monogamy, is that may solve one mutual need, but interferes with another. E.g., the need/desire for exclusivity that undergirds monogamy.

    i know, this all may be radical for some. But my own experience brought me to a place of questioning the whole traditional approach to relationship.
     
  5. BiCavalier

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    Thanks for the response. I really enjoy reading what you have to say.

    I would break my situation up in two sections, frequency of sex and sexual content. I'll get to the monogamy topic after.

    As for frequency, I have the clearest line of sight. We both want more sex.:relaxed: Although, the desired increase in frequency for each of us is much different. I want some kind of sex at least daily. I've only ever had that in my life once. At 55, even with my high level of fitness, that may not be realistic long-term, but thats my stretch goal and desire. As for my wife, once a week would be plenty with an occasional bonus round on special occasions. I know that she is never going to match my drive, but I can find ways to deal with it. I've never been shy about solo play, nor have I been discouraged by my wife.

    The most frustrating situation deals with the content of our sexual lives. I have been vulnerable AF and bared my soul on several occasions, but have little to show for it. I never received an outright no for any suggestion I've had since they have been relatively tame, but damn near every suggestion has been burried. My wife has not offered any creativity or anything personal in terms of her fantasies or wants. That seems absurd to me, because I have to believe that there is some kink or some itch that needs to be scratched. I am literally open to anything she might suggest that doesn't deviate into some disgusting extreme. Our love life is not exactly missionary, but hardly anything but vanilla. For a hypersexual guy like me who spends a great deal of time reading about sex, listening to sex podcasts, and exploring non-mainstream sexual concepts, vanilla is just not going to satisfy me. Without any identifiable path forward, I feel hopeless.

    As for monogamy or rather altering what is our monogamous relationship, that's like passing up Mars and going straight to Pluto. I'm not sure I would want that kind of lifestyle, but I would certainly entertain a conversation about it if she ever showed any interest or curiosity on the topic. In general, I do not deem consensual non-monogamy as radical or extreme. I do know couples that have made that lifestyle work for them and they are quite happy. I often feel like one of the things we couples struggle with the most is the expectation that each person is going to satisfy the other 100% in every way. Frankly, that's crazy talk.

    I've got my therapy session tomorrow and will surely have some dialogue about all this to reflect on.

    Cheers.
     
  6. tallslenderguy

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    Tricky ground. Again, just thoughts here, not conclusions or judgments.
    The part that you wrote that jumps out at me here is:
    "My wife has not offered any creativity or anything personal in terms of her fantasies or wants. That seems absurd to me, because I have to believe that there is some kink or some itch that needs to be scratched."

    What if you are wrong? What if it's not a matter of you having to believe, but wanting to believe? What if she is being open and vulnerable and she doesn't align with you in this way? Or put another way, what is it or why is it that makes you "have to believe" differently than she has presented?
     
  7. BiCavalier

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    Good question. Have to believe or want to believe?

    It's absolutely fair to suggest that I'm just projecting my own feelings. I question myself about that all the time. That said, I know her pattern of behavior and have a good sense of when she is holding back. Couple that with enormous word of people with kinks that are mild to wild, and I feel confident my theory of brlief may be true.

    To yor earlier point, she probably thinks that she has been far more open than I have acknowledged. I guess that is an unfortunate cliche among two people in a committed relationship.
     
  8. tallslenderguy

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    Continuing to go lead with my gut, followed by rationale (all speculative :slight_smile: )

    my suspicion re the "want" vs "have" question would be it's a mix of both, with a lot of fluid nuance just to make life interesting.

    my read of you is you are very rational, and have a well equipped and exercised arsenal. (Coming from a very traditional/stereotype perspective next): We've all heard the saying: "the best defense is a good offense?" But i wonder if that is a 'guy' saying? We live in a male dominated culture and women may have had to develop survival techniques that we don't relate to. While you perceive "holding back" as a defense, she may be using it (consciously or unconsciously) as more of an offense... or just a maintenance strategy. I.e., if she really isn't the kinkster you wish, so far, she has been 'winning.' i know, that's very grossly put, and relationship has so many variables. But it makes a point.

    "Pattern." Those can be very challenging to unravel. Especially long term relationship patterns. One thing i wonder though is what is the corresponding pattern that you have?