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Losing the plot

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by razorsharp, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Unsure77

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    @justaguyinsf I'd agree that he sounds like he's acknowledging that he's not heterosexual. But, I think where communication is maybe breaking down is that him spending the rest of his life flagellating himself for not being straight is not a healthy option. And then also, I feel like we're trying (and failing) to communicate to him that he can accept and embrace that he's not heterosexual without having relationships with men or having to leave his wife.

    He needs to find a way, some way some how, to hold onto both things. He (by his own words) needs to figure out how to maintain a functional marriage with his wife. But, he needs to figure out how to do it without beating the crap out of himself or making himself live on a knife's edge for the next 50 years.

    I'm not a mental health professional and I'm not Muslim. So, no, I don't know how to tell him to do that. But, it seems like he needs to (some way, some how) find a licensed, qualified, competent mental health professional to help him figure it out. (and the ones he described don't sound competent if they were trying to conversion therapy him, which is what he described). He needs to figure out how to make peace with himself while holding his marriage together and while keeping himself safe. That's all I want to see him do. Whatever resources he needs to find to help him do those 3 things.
     
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  2. razorsharp

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    Thanks for saying that. I was worried people would dismiss me and say that I’m ‘living a lie’. I’m glad nobody has said that. I also believe that I can be a good husband somehow. I already am in some ways. I just wanted to give my wife what she deserves but I’m finding it difficult every time the SSAs rear their ugly head. I’ll try to find someone else I can talk to but it won’t be easy.
     
  3. Unsure77

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    @razorsharp What if we could find you a Muslim therapy group? Would that help?
     
  4. Nickw

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    Everything that @Unsure77 wrote I agree with. I, too, am not advocating you leave your wife after learning that it might, simply, not be an option due to cultural situations. And, maybe the same reasons necessitate not disclosing this to her.

    We do know that fighting our sexuality just doesn't work. The attractions don't go away and they can be very disruptive. So, how do we work with carrying on a life that we desire and that our culture might dictate if our SSA make that impossible? This is something I think so many of us ask ourselves over and over. How it is defined (homosexuality, SSA, gay) isn't the issue. The issue is that these desires are hardwired into us. Accepting that is important. That doesn't mean we act on it at all.

    @razorsharp. I've been married over 35 years. After about 5 years my wife became less and less interested in intimacy. I am the type of person who does express my love with sexual intimacy. Without going into a lot of detail, instead of being frustrated with this lack of intimacy, my wife and I learned to practice intimacy that was less sexual in nature but fulfilling to her. I can assure you, as a bisexual, that not having access to intimacy with a woman you desire and love is not a lot different than the frustrations that are brought on by not being able to act on SSA. As I write this I sound like some sort of sexed up pervert. But, as humans, we need intimacy with other humans. And, we deserve intimacy with those we love.

    Some counseling will help you understand that those SSA are natural and a part of you and OK. Learning that of yourself can allow you to be vulnerable...to be able to open up your heart and emotions. Maybe being able to do this will allow you to engage in a higher level of intimacy with your wife and maybe that could include sex. In our culture, this would involve a level of honesty and partnership with one's spouse. But, there might be some similar process for you?
     
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  5. Unsure77

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    Also, would it be doable to pursue IVF or something in that vein to get your wife pregnant? Can you just sort of say you need fertility treatments? Take sex out of it if physical intimacy with her is just too hard? (or is that doable where you live without having to answer too many questions). That or adoption?
     
    #45 Unsure77, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  6. Unsure77

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    That or...I may regret saying this.... So, I watched a "Mormon Stories" podcast where they described the advice the Mormons give gay men. They basically have the gay men intentionally fantasize about men so they can successfully have sex with their wives. You can look on YouTube for an interview on the "Mormon Stories" channel, I think with "Kyle Ashworth" is one of them. If you can find any interviews with men who are gay and were married, they all sort of have that same story. (now, they had them do things that I don't think are appropriate for you to do)...but, is it doable for you to just sort of imagine a hot guy while you're getting ready to be with her to sort of warm you up to get you through intimacy with her? That's very much so what the Mormon gays described being told to do in those interviews.
     
    #46 Unsure77, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  7. Peterpangirl

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    This is a huge dilemma for you. I absolutely hear your very real, deep pain. Perhaps it is true that there us no solution that is entirely palatable. When I was coming out to myself and accepting myself forward for the first time I saw myself as "Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea." It was not easy and has not been easy to find a
    way forward as a married gay woman with children. The path has been paved with a fair amount of rejection (parents included). However, I can say that "stuck" was agony, even if change was painful. And even small changes can make quite a big difference to your well being. What small things would you consider changing, even a little, to make your life a little better at this point? If there was even one small change you could make today, what would it be?
     
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  8. Qrex9871

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    @Peterpangirl , I love your suggestion! On a whim, I called a woman who I was out to about 30 years ago (I kinda forgot about that). It was just a little step, but during the few minutes that we talked, it was so refreshing to be truly authentic with her! That little step has me facing the right direction now.
     
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  9. Peterpangirl

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    I am so pleased for you that you have felt empowered to take a step in the direction that feels right to you...I hear how good it felt
    for you to express your authentic self and how motivational that was.
     
  10. razorsharp

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    The only small thing I wish I could change is to not have the SSA in the first place! That’s impossible. I wish I could stop visiting gay chat rooms which I sometimes do. I feel very bad and guilty afterwards, and clearly doing that doesn’t help my marriage. I’m not the only person in my position, but that doesn’t make it any easier. Sadly this is how I turned out, a sad SSA suffering poor excuse for a man. Life sucks.
     
  11. Unsure77

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    You’re not a poor excuse for a man. You’re a human being whose culture and life circumstance isn’t allowing you to live the way you were created to be. What you’re describing is what you see gay married Mormons describe. It’s why we keep trying to direct you to a positive therapist. Because you spending the rest of your life telling yourself what a horrible person you are instead of learning to accept and cope (and by “cope”, I don’t mean saying “this is how it is, life sucks”) with reality isn’t doing anyone any favors. You need to find someone who can help you learn to deal with this in a positive and CONSTRUCTIVE way.
     
  12. razorsharp

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    Thanks @Unsure77. I still like being married to my wife. She’s a great person and I love her dearly. I just wish the sexual side of our relationship was better. It’s bad because of me. I’m not sure if an LGBT therapist is right for me, since I respectfully disagree with their views. Maybe I could try to find a Muslim therapist. I know a few sources but I have been afraid to approach them incase I somehow get found out. Regarding my low self esteem, it is multi factorial. I sometimes read those straight spouse forums where women describe how they’ve been betrayed by their husbands by cheating/ coming out or getting caught acting out with another man. It saddens me when I read about the pain that is caused to these poor women. This turns my feelings of guilt up a notch.
     
  13. justaguyinsf

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    I think you're right that it would probably be important to find a therapist whose values and culture are aligned with yours, if you decide to go that route. It sounds like a "pro LGBT" therapist, for lack of a better term, might be a mismatch for you. But leaving therapy aside, I wonder if it would be helpful for you to explore on your own whether there are more open/accepting branches of Islam. It looks like there are some interesting movements within Islam around LGBT issues. I recognize this doesn't offer an immediate solution, but it might help you get out of feeling stuck/trapped and let your mind do a little bit of brainstorming about options in dealing with your situation. I do a lot of thinking on my own about my sexuality and my faith (Christian) and how I can reconcile the two, which I've found to be more helpful than talking to "pro LGBT" therapists, who often just have no understanding of the struggle.
     
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  14. Unsure77

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    So, I think what you're failing to see is there's a lot of gray area between constantly beating yourself up for thinking about men or for noticing men (which is where you are) and you actually leaving your wife or having a romantic relationship with a man (which seems to be what you think I think you should do).

    I think you should do your very best to stay with your wife and stay faithful to her, but learn to quit hating yourself for things you can’t change.

    I would also point out that straight married men (honest, faithfully married men ), ALSO likely notice and think about people they’re attracted to aside from their wives. I feel fairly confident most of not all of them do because that’s part of being human. What’s important is that they don’t ACT on it. They may notice their neighbor is pretty, but they don’t sleep with them. You noticing that a man is handsome doesn’t make you unfaithful. You dating them or sleeping with them is what would make you unfaithful (which is not what you’ve described doing).

    I literally have a friend who is a bisexual woman who will sit at a park with her husband and they’ll share commentary on who they think is attractive. Nobody touches anyone. No affairs are had. They just acknowledge what they see and feel and move on. (Which I’m not saying you should do…I’m just using it as an example to say it’s ok to have feelings you don’t act on and not beat yourself up for that).
     
    #54 Unsure77, Feb 14, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
  15. razorsharp

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    Yes that is true @Unsure77. I have never physically done anything physical with a man. However, I visit gay chat rooms sometimes, which is a form of cheating. I find it addictive and am trying to stop. This is why I feel bad not only because of the SSA but because of my behaviour as a result of it.
     
    #55 razorsharp, Feb 16, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2022
  16. Qrex9871

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    Hi @razorsharp -
    I’m thinking of you today because as even much as I feel my same-sex attractions, it’s unthinkable for me to cause my wife the level of pain she would feel if I seek satisfaction of my desires.

    Today I got together with a friend from a long time ago, a woman to whom I was fully out about 30 years ago. She asked me if I wanted to have intimacy with a man and I said, “I can’t". It may have been the most honest, authentic thing I’ve said in a long time. I didn’t say “no”, and I didn’t say “I don’t want to”. I said “I can’t”. I don’t know what your next step is, and I’m not even sure what my next step is. It’s probably something about finding more people with whom I can be fully honest and authentic.

    I hope you are finding some peace in your circumstances.
     
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  17. hopefulB

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    Right there with you, the desire there, but feeling I can't follow those impulses. All the shame, the doubt just dripping and drowning the actual real desire.
     
  18. calmac

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    You might not stop the same sex attraction and that will be a cross that you will have to bear. You don't have to act on the thoughts or attraction. I don't believe that being gay is a choice but all of us have the power to not act on our thoughts or feelings.
     
  19. razorsharp

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    That is true and while it is not too difficult to not act out on the SSAs physically, it is difficult to not act out online because of the ease of access to porn and chat rooms in the modern world. I find this especially difficult.
     
  20. Peterpangirl

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    I am wondering how it would feel to acknowledge what you cannot change about yourself and shifting the focus onto those things you CAN change? I think it is fair to say that whilst you did not chose to be attracted to men, this is something that will not go away. It just is.
    However, after that we all have choices.
    One choice is to keep your life exactly as it is and to hate yourself for something you cannot change. Another choice is to keep your life as it is but accept yourself as you are without hating yourself.
    A further choice is to explore different branches of your faith to see what they have to say about LGBT and how their views might sit with you. Within Christianity it is possible to both openly accept being attracted to one's own sex but to chose celibacy - perhaps this might be a choice you could make within Islam? Always keep in mind that whilst there are things we cannot change there are also choices that we can make.
     
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