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Is it just me, or can LGBT people not accept other's opinions?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Naos210, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. LostLion

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    This isn't unique to just LGBT people, of course, but it's definitely something I've noticed in LGBT community circles.

    Particularly on politics and sometimes on cultural differences as well. Groupthink is very strong in many different types of communities.

    Collective unity is importance but so is understanding that not everyone will see everything eye-to-eye.
     
  2. Aussie792

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    I mean obviously you get the range of radical Marxist feminist queers who think capitalism is inherently homophobic to the hysterical, confected political philosophy of 'your vision of social progress is oppressive if it doesn't include all queers, including the rats up my sleeve and the furries on the park bench.' That is often counterproductive, the co-opting of LGBTQ issues into vastly different agenda or just plain silly.

    But it's important to be comparative about 'shrill' LGBTQ advocacy and homophobia.

    Religious or otherwise conservative homophobia results in real destruction of life, death and a culture of timidity and restriction. And often, they get away with those brutal, radical and simply bizarre beliefs because they can rely on lazy implicit assumptions carried on from centuries of homophobic culture that have taken most of the 20th century to academically rebut and still have social weight.

    There's also a sort of traditional legitimacy that religious homophobia has which, as a result of the whiplash shock of secularisation of society in the 20th century, still maintains a sort of respect despite being contradictory to many modern social institutions. That respect for form makes the truly substanceless or blatantly terrifying things old institutions believe and propagate seem comparatively normal. The psychological weight of centuries of power and impressions of legitimacy can't be wiped away by a century and a bit of progress.

    And because of that weight of history, implicit assumptions about norms make logically radical homophobia seem normal compared to LGBTQ rights. A clear example is OGS' comment about even liberal societies' struggle to weigh up the value of being denied vital goods and services vs the liberty of denying goods and services to a small number of people. A status quo bias and a continuing belief in the legitimacy of old social, religious and legal institutions regardless of substance means that it's easy to have backlash against LGBTQ demands simply because that institutional legitimacy has not yet accrued to us.

    Compare the substance and it's easy to favour gays. Compare the forms of legitimacy most people live their lives believing in and it's a more complex story. It is obviously not 'oppressive' or a silencing of speech to say that being able to deny housing to gay couples is a blatantly nasty thing to do. But for the reasons outlined above, that inspires backlash, even among ourselves, in the belief that it's too much to ask.

    TLDR; the psychological and social weight of homophobia is the result of institutional and historical prevalence of homophobia, which has normalised it. In contrast, gay appeals for equality can seem radical because the starting point for many people is not a rational philosophy of rights, but subconscious or active deference to historically and currently homophobic religious, social and legal institutions. And given LGBTQ aims are mutually exclusive with many of those institutional practices, it seems like we're 'unfairly' shutting them out by demanding basic rights and social conditions.

    And while it is irritating, that is not the cross I want my commitment to gay rights to die on - a petty squabble that ignores the thrust of where our advocacy efforts must go.
     
    #22 Aussie792, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  3. PatrickUK

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    There is a tendency amongst some members of the LGBT community to become very outspoken, challenging and confrontational when they come out. If the closet stifled them, coming out liberates them, but it can lead to an unbalanced perspective and exaggerated sort of aggression that resembles rage. It's something we need to be very aware of, because when it's misdirected towards people who simply disagree, or can't see life our way, it can be very damaging (more damaging perhaps, than the closet).

    The closet makes us angry, but we must decide what to do with that anger. Do we harness it in a positive way to advocate for change and make the world a better place or do we go off like a bomb and create havoc in our own lives and the lives of others? Coming out is one of the best things we can do. It's a life enhancing thing that can take us in a really good direction, but all of that can be undone if we make the wrong choices and adopt a bad, hostile attitude afterwards. Sadly, it happens too often and many LGBT people end up in the therapy room because they implode after coming out.

    It's also true that people can become very bitter and nasty while they are in the closet. So much is being repressed and silenced that we start to react against people/life etc. It's understandable, in many ways, but it can make a bad situation so much worse.

    So, there is a certain amount of psychology to it and we mustn't overlook that, but we cannot absolve ourselves of personal responsibility either. We have choices to make and if we choose to be a nasty, ill tempered bitch, always looking for a fight we need to realise how hard life will be.
     
  4. Kasey

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    When someone's opinion dehumanizes another I do not have tolerance for them.
     
  5. raviolii

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    idk about other religions too much, but with christianity it is homophobic as the bible isnt actually homophobic. christians tend to use the bible as a way to excuse homophobia - i know this for a fact, im a christian and i know homophobic christians.
     
  6. Browncoat

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    Is it just me, or does someone like painting in very broad brush strokes?