1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is it just me, or can LGBT people not accept other's opinions?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Naos210, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Naos210

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Let me stress this, I'm not calling out anyone in particular. But let me leave my personal opinion here. I believe in there being strictly a gender binary, I believe transgenders are valid, but non-binary, and especially "otherkin", "transage", and "transracial", are not. If you want to identify as non-binary, it's fine by me. I'm not going to demean you in any way. Now, I may get a lot of crap of this, but I do feel this must be said. Yes, if you're discriminated against, it's terrible, but someone's thoughts are something you can't just think they're terrible people for. These are my opinions, and they don't affect anyone else. It seems like the LGBT community will take it to heart (not all but some), and it does leave a bad impression on these people on what the LGBT community is. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the subject. Remember, anything I placed is my personal opinion, and regardless of my thoughts, I'm open-minded, and let people identify the way they want.
     
  2. Ljjgreat2017

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Maryland
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    I have noticed that the LGBT community tends to have a problem with people who think differently than them. For example, if someone disagrees with homosexuality based on religious grounds, that person is called homophobic, or a bigot. I notice that the society that we live in is so progressive that political correctness has gone to an extreme. Nowadays, if you say something that sounds true or different than the crowd, you tend to get shunned or excluded just for having that opinion. Personally, I think people are entitled to their opinions.
     
  3. FrogCAT

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Trantor
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Because they are a homophobic bigot.
     
  4. Andrew99

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Arizona
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I use to feel this way. I thought anyone who didn't support gay rights was a horrible person. Now I have learned that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and just agree to disagree in a conversation and simply move on.
     
  5. Jellal

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    I know exactly the types you're talking about. But everyone can act this way.

    The water gets a little muddier when it comes to somebody who wants to deny a basic human right to somebody else. I can understand not wanting to accept that opinion.
     
  6. Austin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,172
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Shh you can't talk about that here...:***:
     
  7. dreamcatcher

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    USA
    But why can't I think someone is terrible based on their thoughts? If someone believes that interracial marriage is wrong, I'm going to think they are a terrible person because of their thoughts. If someone believes all Jews should die, I'm going to again think they are terrible people. We most certainly can think people are awful due to their thoughts.

    People are complaining about liberals being too politically correct and how they get offended over everything. But I honestly find that the right is just as sensitive to criticism as the left. Just look at people like Tomi Lahren. Look at the people who started going on and on about the War on Christmas over a Starbucks cup. The fact is humans are sensitive. This is not unique to the left, right or the LGBT community. People do not like their ideas or values criticized or judged.

    You say that the LGBT community takes things to heart but that's only natural when being insulted. We have historically been oppressed. So when people with beliefs or views that have oppressed us for a long time mention something that offends us, it's normal to take it personally. If someone says "I disagree with gay marriage" and I am married to a woman that I love and have children with, is it wrong to be offended? If I said to a straight couple that I thought them having children was morally repugnant because we are overpopulated and it's destroying the planet, they would have every right to be offended. It's a personal attack. I'm judging their choices. People have the right to say what they want but they need to understand that what they say will affect other people.

    And that's the problem that I find when people say that the LGBT community doesn't accept other people's opinions. Often times people who say the LGBT community isn't accepting of others opinions just say that as an excuse to say offensive things. And when those people get called out on it, they get upset over it.

    TLDR: I don't think the LGBT community is intolerant over other's opinions. They're simply human beings that want to live freely just like everyone else.
     
  8. Tre

    Tre
    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    What do Christians even mean when they say they don't believe in homosexuality? To me it just sounds very uneducated. I don't even take their opinion seriously.
     
  9. Connorcode

    Connorcode Guest

    I find people as a whole tend to "agree to disagree" peacefully and move on, but those who don't want to accept the opinions of others shout the loudest and therefore dominate the conversation.

    You can't just pull a Trump and say "wrong!" every time someone has an opinion. If they understand that their opinion will cause offense (and understand why this is) but choose to continue pushing the matter, that's not okay.

    To challenge an opinion, you have to accept that they believe it - that it's an opinion a person can have. When you start arguing it's an opinion someone less than human would have, then you've already lost the argument.
     
  10. FrogCAT

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Trantor
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Exactly.

    Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, so long as those beliefs don't disrespect anyone else's existence.
     
  11. Libertino

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,195
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    This Side of the Enlightenment
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Disagreeing with someone is not taking away your right to an opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to disagree, voice my disagreement, and critique your stated opinion. What people need to realize is that "opinion-having" is two-sided. It goes both ways. You are not exempt from criticism. Having an opinion is not some holy state where you cannot be approached. An opinion's validity is not established on the basis of it being an opinion in the first place. Disagreeing with someone's opinion is also an opinion, so it's hypocritical to claim that that disagreement is somehow wrong, when it is really just another opinion, being framed as a reaction to an original stated opinion.

    Here's a question: What does it mean for you to have your opinion "accepted"?
     
  12. Alex TransLion

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    I'm okay with people disagreeing with homosexuality on religious terms so long as they do not act upon it. My motto is that I will respect your opinion so long as it doesn't disrespect anyone's existence, so if you act or dismiss those who you disagree with, we have a problem. Otherwise I'm fine. I just don't like people who act like assholes.
     
  13. Assassin'sKat

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Your head, zombie.
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    You know, I agree with you. I go into LGBT spaces to try to find other people who are different like me. That's my reason to go to places like this site, and Queer Resource Centers, and I will continue to go. But, when I am there, I am afraid to disagree with them, or whatever a feminist would say. I am afraid to speak up. I am afraid to say that I am glad Hilary lost. I am afraid to say that I think the Trump protests are dumb. And I am afraid to say that I am extremely skeptical of the whole more-than-two-genders thing. They will get extremely offended if I say I'm skeptical. I don't even claim to not believe they don't exist at all, just that I think they probably aren't a thing. I still respect those who use gender-neutral pronouns, but I don't know if nonbinary is a real thing. If I ask for proof or evidence or have questions about it, I am afraid they will get offended. I know one thing, some of the more out-there identities are probably not a thing. People are just making up labels for every last feeling they have...
    Sorry if I offend anyone who claims one of these non-binary identities, but I am skeptical. I will call you by your pronouns, but I am not sure if I believe it.
    I am glad someone else is skeptical too.
     
  14. Tre

    Tre
    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    I'm the same way with non-binary people. I'm leaning towards believing they exist, but I just notice way too many non-binary people. I doubt all of them are legit. I go to the queer space to meet some gay and bi people. Preferably girls. Instead it's full of non-binary types. I just want to meet some girls. :bang:
     
  15. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,283
    Likes Received:
    320
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    IMO. I think you are absolutely correct, Naos210. LGBTQ tend to be, in my experience, some of the most JUDGMENTAL people, depending on the issue, that I have ever dealt with. I don't know if being part of a minority seems to falsely 'empower' some people with an exaggerated sense of 'moral superiority' or 'righteousness', but I definitely think that it is a dark road on which many in our community are readily willing to embark.

    Just my 2cents.:slight_smile:
     
  16. Canterpiece

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    60
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The thing about opinions is that they can be difficult to talk about. I don’t mind when others disagree- frankly I encourage it, I like to have a fully rounded conversation on topics, and perhaps I’d learn something from someone who deeply opposes me.

    But, when that conversation turns into violent threats (I’m going to throw empty threats at you because I disagree!) or when someone just says the same point twice ( for instance, they say that two things are the same- and you show them evidence to disprove their stance, and instead of replying that “your counter argument is wrong because” and then giving a reason, they instead just say the same thing they did before you replied- making no comment about the points you made in yours, like they didn’t hear you) then that’s when an argument goes downhill.

    For me, arguments are usually about understanding each other’s viewpoint and perhaps coming to conclusion about the topic itself. As long as the opposer remains respectful, I will to. But when they cross that line of respectfulness, of course I will judge them. Now, I understand people who disagree with homosexuality on the basis of religion, but I still hold them to that line.

    If they start threatening people, that is going too far. I find it curious when people disagree with homosexuality on religious grounds, yet there are quite a few who agree with it and are religious. It’s not really my business, but it can be interesting to see the reasoning people have to why they feel one way or the other about it.

    Although the question is, what about homosexuality do they disagree with? The fact that it exists? Same-sex acts? The fact that some gay people have jobs? The answer tends to vary between individuals, some people even complain about famous gay people appearing in advertising in an advert that has no mention whatsoever about homosexuality.

    Everyone, non-LGBT and LGBT, draws a line at what they’re willing to accept, and this line can vary a lot. We base our line on our experiences and our knowledge, and sometimes we step out of our stance for a moment and find a compelling counter argument that fits with our knowledge (and perhaps our experiences) and we question our stance and perhaps change it to fit better depending on the circumstance. It develops.

    Whenever people say “There are only two genders-male and female”, I always think- what about intersex? That’s a state of birth just as AMAB and AFAB is. I don’t mind if someone is non-binary, but I find “Zer, Zie, Zerself” to be rather odd pronouns, and I would prefer calling someone who’s non-binary “they” instead because “they” is easier to remember and feels more natural to me, but at the end of the day it’s not me being called these things, so if someone wanted me to refer to them as “Zer” then I would, with slight reluctance.

    I have a friend who has a similar stance as the OP, he doesn’t like the concept of non-binary either, and rather annoyingly makes posts intended to offend those that do identify as non-binary. I dislike his approach to this, because instead of having thoughtful discussions about it- he’s just writing stuff to provoke people now which doesn’t really help anybody.

    An important thing to remember is that a person does not make up an entire community, and I think people can forget that sometimes. It is difficult to say whether most of the LGBT community “can’t take other’s opinions” because it could just be the case- like others have said- that those who are shouting the loudest (but don’t necessarily have any good points) are the ones being heard.

    People like to use the term “social justice warrior”, but the trouble with that is people tend to define this differently- you have to ask questions like when does a person cross into this territory? People draw the line at different places.

    Yes, it could be the case of some people in the LGBT community being self-proclaimed experts on everything LGBT, but I think anyone who has a deep interest in something or is a member of any community can fall victim of this, and we do have to realise that human knowledge is limited by the fact we can only understand and experience so much. All we can do is research a topic to the best of our ability and talk to others in the field or community about it- keeping in mind that what they tell us may be imperfect.
     
  17. Embi

    Embi Guest

    You are right, everyone has a right to their own opinion, but this opinion shouldn't invalidate someone else's existence or identity. It's easy to claim something doesn't exist, when you don't experience it. It would be easy for me as a bisexual person to claim that monosexuality doesn't exist because I can't comprehend how you could possibly care about the gender of your partner. But I don't do that because I know other people feel different and I'd hurt them if I told them they were invalid. And there is no reason for me to have that opinion anyway because it wouldn't get me anywhere.

    If you have a hurtful opinion, keep it to yourself. So many straight people claim homosexuality doesn't exist. And yet so many homosexual people tell other members of the LGBTQ*-community that their identity doesn't exist. That's so hypocritical. Shouldn't everyone have the right to identify the way they want? If someone doesn't hurt you and others with what they do and say, why do you even care? Just ignore it and respect them. There's absolutely no need to say "I think those identities are wrong" because what for? You are only hurting people with a statement like that and it doesn't even get you anywhere.

    Opinions are, in my opinion :slight_smile:lol:slight_smile:, there to discuss stuff either for fun (e.g. what your favourite movie is, why you dislike chocolate, etc.) or to make changes in society (e.g. colour doesn't have a gender, racism is bad, etc.). And those opinions that discriminate others, are just not okay because all humans are equal. You have no right to discriminate against anyone, even if they are horrible people. But expressing an opinion that has no real purpose and also has the potential to hurt people, is just useless, isn't it?

    Tl;dr: Why do you even care what other people identify as when it doesn't affect you and others negatively in any way?

    But this is just my opinion :icon_wink
     
  18. OGS

    OGS
    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,673
    Likes Received:
    685
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I for one disagree with the premise and in my experience LBGT people are generally among the more tolerant, less judgmental people I've encountered.

    I do however think it is unreasonable to expect people to sort of live and let live with certain opinions. When your head is on the block you don't live and let live with regards to the axe--and unfortunately in some respects that's where we're at. I tried to kill my self my senior year in high school because all the noise around me, all the opinions out there, told me that there wasn't a way forward. And they were wrong--and I wish someone would have stood up and said they were wrong. I made it but a lot of people don't. LGBT suicide rates are as much as 4 times higher than the general population. Somewhere between 30 and 40 percent of gay youths have attempted suicide. And I think about that when people express certain opinions, and I wonder who else is listening and what they might do. And I guess maybe that means I don't "accept other's opinions" but I guess I'm alright with that...

    The other issue is the whole political thing. And again I think it's sort of the old head on the block thing. There are few other groups at least in US politics where we pretty regularly vote with respect to the group's basic humanity. For instance, a variety of states have proposed variations on the First Amendment Defense Act. A national version is also proposed. These laws make it a fundamental right of Americans to discriminate against LGBT people--in public accommodation, housing and employment. The current president has stated that he supports such laws. In my opinion such laws fundamentally disrespect my humanity. I think it is unreasonable for people to think that they can fundamentally disrespect my humanity and not have it affect how I feel about them as a person. I think you have the right to think it, you have the right to say it, you certainly have the right to vote that way--you DON'T have the right for that decision to be free of consequences...
     
  19. Flowey

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Asia
    no more no less than non-lGBT people. I think everyone's judgmental, and that's normal. It just means we have a certain set of values and we judge people based on those values.
    Honestly, I want to say 'go fuck yourself, cunt' on this forum many times but it's not worth getting stressy over some online arguments :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
    I just want to look at cute romantic stories, lol
     
  20. AnAtypicalGuy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Gallifrey
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    I suppose LGBT people are more ready to jump into defence than other people as we've generally faced more discrimination than them. But I personally don't condone people who act this way, as their reasoning is often unfair. I've noticed that while many LGBT people would jump at the opportunity of putting down straight/cis people (eg. "straight relationships are boring" and "straight men are stupid/gross"), they also seem quite eager to pin others down with labels such as "bigot" and "homophobe". For example, if a straight girl chose not to date a trans guy as she wasn't physically attracted to his body, she'd automatically be labeled a transphobe, even if she were otherwise really supportive of trans people.

    In an ideal world people would accept other people's preferences, so long as they weren't truly damaging to other people. But these days it's becoming harder and harder to express your thoughts without being called out for being "offensive".