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Individualism vs Collectivism

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by BlueMonday, May 29, 2021.

  1. BlueMonday

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    Individualism.
     
  2. Unsure77

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    Balance. I think both in their extreme can be bad.
     
  3. Chiroptera

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    The idea of Collectivism doesn't exclude the individual needs and desires of each person. To put these things in opposition of each other is to misunderstand their concepts.
     
  4. MikeL1962

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    So explain their concepts.
     
  5. MikeL1962

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    Collectivism would mean the needs and wants of the individual is second to the needs of the collection.
     
  6. gravechild

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    Do you mean economically? Culturally?
     
  7. QuietPeace

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    Like virtually everything else governance and culture are on a spectrum.

    Even the most repressive extremist theocratic system which depend on everyone subsuming their lives to whatever god they submit their society to believe that it is up to each individual to submit to that god and hold all of the individuals responsible for their actions.

    Even the most individualistic person who claims to be totally self made has been dependent upon other people. No person is born and then abandoned totally to themselves. All humans must be supported through childhood and into adulthood or they would die from exposure/starvation/other. Even if they only consider what they do from the time they are an adult, every human depends on the knowledge developed by those who went before them. No individual has struck out totally on their own, developed fire, technology starting with stone implements and continuing forward and lived entirely on their own with no previously taught knowledge developed by others. Not one person has become wealthy without leaning on developments and work done by other people no matter how insistent they are that no one helped them or contributed.
     
  8. Unsure77

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    I think where I'm coming from... I grew up in a Christian denomination that systematically covered up childhood sexual abuse for decades (affecting hundreds if not thousands of kids), convincing victims to remain quiet (and not bothering to report it to authorities). All to protect the group. To avoid bringing shame on the group. To not make the group look bad.

    On the flip side, I'm living in a country where people just loudly and belligerently refused to take even the simplest of measures to protect their friends and neighbors from a deadly pandemic because they felt like being asked to wear a simple piece of cloth or paper over their face for 10 minutes while they ran into a grocery store was a gross infringement of their personal rights and freedoms. A lot of people died who wouldn't have as a result.

    I think there are times to protect and work for the good of the group and there are times to stand up for the individual. And I don't think people always use good judgment on which to do when.
     
    #8 Unsure77, May 30, 2021
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
  9. sojabohnenfeld

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    More like words vs sentences...

    But if we're doing a kind of write club thing I would say individualism is the way to go. Collectivism sounds a lot like conformity to me but I could be wrong here. But conformity is bad, very bad, and this can be seen in things like how people used to not believe the sun was at the center of the solar system, how they thought the USA is the best country on the planet, how people used to think homosexuality could be cured, etc. These might be random, extreme examples, but generally, it's important to stay individual, even if there's a lot of pressure to conform. There are benefits to collectivism, but I think collectivism is kind of the natural state we fall into, whereas it takes concentration to stand out when necessary. And when you have political beliefs only because others tell you to... I think it can be very bad.

    Of course, I hate that the United States is such an individualistic, prideful place. I see it in my parents and I really hate it however from a pure standpoint I still see their nasty individualism as a kind of collectivism, where all their conservative role models tell them what a free spirited cowboy they are... (I'm sorry about this rant)