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Important Changes at Empty Closets - Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Empty Closets Help and Feedback' started by Paul_UK, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. joeyconnick

    joeyconnick Guest

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    I think the discussion thread is to allow everyone to get more clarification of what's going on, why it's happening, how it's going to work. I took the first message as a statement that major changes have to be made, period.

    Plus there's always the fact that it's best to start out clear and firm to avoid people who want to argue just for the sake of arguing, as opposed to people who want to make intelligent (and hopefully useful) comments.
     
  2. Nodnarb

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    I'm fine with these changes as well. As far as PM's being completely "private", I always asumed that the mods/admin could monitor them, as that is how it is on other forums I belong to, so it doesn't seem like an "invasion of privacy" to me.

    Unfortunately, the issue of being able to message new members who truly do need help seems to be very complicated. But I trust you guys to do what is best for EC and, most importantly, our safety.
     
  3. Paul_UK

    Paul_UK Guest

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    We are discussing a system of having a few members who are given a similar status to "Experts" though not that title, perhaps "Counsellors", "Friends" or something. They would be able to receive PMs from regular members and to PM them. We are thinking of people who are active and give good advice in the support sections, and would be able to give good one-to-one advice where wanted or needed. They would probably PM all new members to welcome and encourage them too.

    This whole idea is still very much in discussion at the moment, and we weren't going to mention it until it was clarified a bit more, but since the point has been raised it seems reasonable to let you know what we are thinking. We are hoping this is going to help to bridge the gap somewhat and make newer members feel more welcome and supported.
     
  4. otc877

    otc877 Guest

    Exactly the reason I didn't report. I just assumed that if it was bothering the person it was directed at, they would report it. I tend to mind my own business.

    Question, will there be some identifiable tag or soemthign that lets other members know who's in which group?
     
  5. Tom

    Tom Guest

    As has been said before people like to PM new members, maybe you should have a group of people, other than mods and admins, that these can PM for a certain length of time just to get their bearings and be helped by more experienced members, and it would provide them some one to be able to speak to if they dont want to post something in the public threads. this would mean that only people that you specifically ask to do this and trust can send PM's to the new members, and it will mean it is easier to keep track of the conversations, and im sure that if one of the ppl you chose thought the new member might not be who thy are or a predator or such then they can contact a admin/mod so they can make their own decisions.

    this seems to satisfy most of the issues i can see, i just done know if it is possible to do with the programming of vbulletin.

    [edit just read pauls last post which basically says this]
     
    #45 Tom, Jun 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2008
  6. Psychedelic Bookmarks

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    I'd just like to say that although I'm very sad that this whole debacle even occurred (and I wonder who the predator was...? But I suppose you can't say and I understand that) I support all moves to protect new members. If I had been preyed on when I first came to EC it would have been a f:***: disaster. That's just not something you can risk.
     
  7. Paul_UK

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    Yep, that's correct Joey. What I was trying to say (perhaps not that clearly) when I said "not up for discussion" is that the actual changes are set and not changeable. Perhaps "not for negotiation" would have been better wording.

    However people obviously will want to discuss the changes, clarify what they mean for the site and its members etc, and how we can make the transition as painless as possible. That is what this thread is for.
     
  8. Paul_UK

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    Yes, we will be doing that. Similar to the Moderator and Admin ones but different colours.
     
  9. joeyconnick

    joeyconnick Guest

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    That sounds like a cool solution! "Counsellors" is probably a problematic term (as I kind of find "experts," too) because it implies a formality that may make people think the person is "officially" qualified and in so many ways there's no way to verify it even if they were. So "Friends" or "Greeters" or something else welcoming but not easily confused as any kind of official thing in the "outside" world. Maybe "EC Advisor?" Since you're talking about people who give good advice and I don't think "advisor" can be mistaken for any one formal role in the "real world." Like there are "Residence Advisors" at university (here, at least) who are just people with jobs, not people with formal qualifications.
     
  10. Paul_UK

    Paul_UK Guest

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    I have no idea how we will do the PM permissions in vBulletin yet. I'm hoping there is an add-on out there to simplify this, otherwise I'll probably be doing some custom programming...
     
  11. ccdd

    ccdd Guest

    I would like to say that I am 100% behind these changes, and that I am horrified and upset at the events that seem to have brought it about.

    Online safety, especially on a site like this, where people come when they are especially vulnerable, is absolutely essential. I would say that it should be the site's number one priority, which overrides all other concerns. Although that said, I am really happy that, given the difficult legal (and ethical) circumstances they are working in, the mods were able to come to a compromise whereby the valuable PM and chat room facilities can be retained in some form.

    I had already assumed that all PMs were kept, actually. I think that the suggestion whereby people are notified of this will also put potential abusers of the system off using them anyway. Random viewing of threads, anonymously, by a select few, I see is necessary too, to prevent abuse of the system. I myself am very happy this is being implemented.

    I think that being able to reverse decisions as to whether someone is an established member or not is also very important, and I like the fact that once received, it is still subject to good behaviour, and that it can be subject to review.

    I, for one, would have found these extra safety features an additional reason to join, especially if I was younger, and I find them an extra incentive to stay now.

    I am really upset that there have been incidences of older members preying on younger members. Anything that can be done to prevent this and ensure the safety of all EC's members - including the older ones who don't want to be stalked or harrassed either - is necessary and welcome in my opinion.

    I would like to say a good thank you to Paul and all the mods for making what must have been a difficult decision. And thank you for taking the time and energy to come up with a compromise whereby safety can be ensured, and some of the very valuable features of EC can still be kept. I would like to thank them for taking the time to go through all the members to establish their membership, which I am sure cannot be a fun task. And I'd like to thank them for caring enough about the members on here to take our safety seriously, even to the point of making decisions which some might dislike.

    The very active moderation of this site is one reason why I remain, and I like to think that all the friends I've made on here are as safe as I'd like them to be :slight_smile:
     
  12. JSG

    JSG Guest

    Nooooooooo !!
    Post your pic thread is dead :cry:
    This is the 2nd time it's been closed and quite possibly the last time :frowning2:
     
  13. Mirko

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    I'm supporting the changes being implemented. Although having joined EC, I was and still am a bit concerned that everything we post is visible on the web that can easily be exploited by others. The enhanced security features will definitely alleviate some of these concerns. Plus, the securer the site is, the more likely it is that others who need help will join. I do feel that it is important to keep this site as safe as possible for current and future members.

    I can only echo ccdd's words: Thank you to the team for caring about the safety of all members and for undertaking this challenge.
     
  14. jazzrawr

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    I think this is actually a pretty cool idea.
    One of the big reasons that my mom doesn't like this site so much is because she hates that internet forums aren't safe enough, and this is adding the safety factor.
    i mean, it will be kinda sucky not being able to pm new users, but it makes everything safer in case a new user isn't here for the right reasons...
    so thanks guys. I'm not mad ^.^ :grin:
    and thanks for doing all this work just for us!!
     
  15. Paul_UK

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    They are part of profiles so will be limited to established members, the same as blogs and albums.

    They seem to cause some confusion as I think some people don't realise they are publicly viewable and use them like PMs.

    Yes, I agree with you about the naming. Counsellors is a sort of "working title" we have used in the discussions, but as I mentioned this is still being planned and discussed (though something will happen if technically possible), and the title for them is part of that. There are some good suggestions in your post. :thumbsup:

    I'm sorry, but yes it has been removed for now. In light of this discussion we have already had a few people asking us to delete their photos from it, so it was easiest just to remove it from view for now. I don't know whether it will be back, but I think it is unlikely.

    We now have a much better album system though, where comments can be left. There is also the view of the latest pics and random pics on the Members tab (which will also be unavailable for regular members) to help you find them too.

    I think an "Album Updates" thread would be a good replacement for the picture posting one. People can put the new pics in their albums then announce the additions in the thread so others can go and take a look and leave comments. It achieves the same thing without having all the pictures out there for everyone to see.

    We could have a "Blog Updates" thread too, where people can announce their new blog entries.
     
  16. Mirko

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    I like the idea of an 'Album Updates' and 'Blog Updates" threads. :slight_smile:
     
  17. LOVEjames

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    I adore everything being done, and it really seems to be a step for the better. :slight_smile:
     
  18. Kat22

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    This was a hard decision to make, I am sure, but thank you to everyone who worked so hard to keep EC from simply being shut down. With change comes greatness, right? I'm totally willing to adapt to the change to keep members feeling safe here!!!

    Way to go mods and admins! (&&&)

    Edit: Btw. I had no idea that any of the older/younger member problems were occuring :-S
     
    #58 Kat22, Jun 17, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2008
  19. MeskElil

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    I like the idea of having "counselors" for the younger members. They are, after all, the ones who really need advice. I think that that would be the best way to help them with things. And again, I appreciate everything that the mods have done to make this site safer (and still keep it helpful and workable.)
     
  20. Chaos

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    I've been a member of EC for two and a half years, but I don't have as many posts as some people who've joined this year. I barely just have over 100 posts.

    The criteria for established members talks about making as little as 100 posts to be considered for an "established member" account....

    100 posts is fair, but the way people obtain those posts isn't.

    Some people just spam lots to get more posts. Some people, like me, post sporadically, but I personally think that my posts mean more. Why? Well, for one thing, I didn't really spam. I will post in the game threads at times, but some people do it all of the time, therefore their post counts are pretty high.

    Personally, I think that to be an established member you need posts that are more meaningful... So posts that take time to write or require thinking. I've run many successul web forums with thousands of members and what we do is have posts not count to post counts in game or spam sections.

    Wouldn't that be more fair? It makes sense to me.

    Edit:

    One other thing. I think that it's about time that changes like these happened.
     
    #60 Chaos, Jun 17, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2008