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I'm being pressured to have sex- please help

Discussion in 'Physical & Sexual Health' started by lottaotter, Apr 10, 2022.

  1. Stitch57

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    I agree with the people in this thread. It’s not a problem with you, the problem is with the other person. Also I agree @TinyWerewolf I only read the tittle and though kick that dudes but to curb. I hope it’s going well for you!
     
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  2. lottaotter

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    Unfortunately I've failed yet again at being assertive and standing up for myself. I've failed everyone here who gave me good advice.

    I texted him asking if he was OK and saying if he doesn't want to see me again that's fine. I didn't say how he made me feel uncomfy or say I definitely wasn't interested in seeing him again. I haven't even blocked him. He hasn't responded and I doubt he will.

    All I can think of is how bad I must have made him feel for not going along with what he wanted to do (even though I did to some extent). And how I was inconsiderate by being like this when his relative had died, he was very busy at work and had some health problems himself. I feel selfish and ungrateful on one hand, and a pathetic failure on her other.

    What the hell is wrong with me? I thought I was getting better at standing up for myself but every goddamn minute of my waking life I feel like I'm just scrambling to please, please, please other people so they don't shout or get nasty with me or manipulate me into doing stuff for them.

    I'm sorry.
     
  3. Sunchimes

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    Please don’t see this as a failure. You haven’t failed us, or yourself. You’ve made a mistake. We are all human and all of us make mistakes

    You simply had a moment where you felt that you needed to know if he was ok. (Not that he deserves your concern)

    OK so this is where you need to see things differently. You’re a caring person but you’re not caring about yourself here. You can’t allow yourself to worry about making him feel bad because you refused him sex when you didn’t want it. If that person is persistent then that should make them feel bad. They are in the wrong. This guy has been in the wrong.

    You are certainly not inconsiderate just because you stood your ground in this matter. Giving him sex when you don’t want it, just because he is grieving is not a good thing. You can’t allow yourself to feel bad about this. Yes he’s got some issues himself but you are definitely not selfish. What makes you think you are ungrateful? He is out of order. You’ve done nothing wrong.

    You’re not pathetic and you’re not a failure. You just need to look at this from the perspective of how he persisted on wanting sex when he knew you didn’t want it. He is the failure here. Grieving is no excuse for this type of behaviour.

    There’s absolutely no need to apologise (not to me anyhow). The only thing that is wrong with you is you seem to be afraid of people’s reactions when you don’t give them what they want. Have people shouted or got nasty with you in the past when you have not wanted to give them their own way? What has made you so afraid?

    Life is a balance of give and take. We have to love and respect those who love and respect us. It’s a two way thing. We communicate what we want and what we don’t want and others listen (and vice versa). If others can’t respect us then we shouldn’t feel bad for not giving into them.

    This guy is bad news. I hope he doesn’t text you back for your sake. Please block him. You are not selfish or inconsiderate for doing so. Look after yourself. Forget him.
     
    #23 Sunchimes, Apr 19, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2022
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  4. TinyWerewolf

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    Don't apologize to anyone but yourself over this- and do better in the future! We all want you to be more assertive for your own sake, not ours! It's sweet of you to check on him like that, but he is the one who messed up here without a doubt.
     
  5. lottaotter

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    Thanks. Do you think it's best I just leave it/block him now? The more I think about it the more manipulative he seemed all along. So much so that I am (for the first time in my life) sometimes catching myself wanting to get back with him-- which I am absolutely not doing. I just feel tempted to send him a very angry message, but it's probably not a good idea, is it?
     
    #25 lottaotter, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
  6. lottaotter

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    I feel ungrateful because he was kind enough to want to sleep with me. I'm not conventionally-attractive. A lot of people would say I'm ugly. I have mental health problems. I'm not a catch. He paid for drinks and stuff, and drove us places. I was constantly asking if he'd let me pay for stuff, or at least go halves, and to let me make my own way to places. I hate being dependent on other people (though people on EC probably don't get that from my needy posts). Maybe he knew what he was doing and knew it would make me feel guilty. I felt a lack of control and I didn't feel we were even in the relationship, ever.

    I am terrified. My Dad would always get stroppy with me and my Mom if we didn't do what he wanted to do. I can't think of more than a few instances when my Mom has done what she wanted to do. She always tries to 'keep the peace' by catering to other people's needs 24/7. I've picked up a lot of this habit too. It's an effective 'survival technique'. I'm a 'fixer' and a 'helper' and a problem-solver. My friends all come to me to offload their shit- I'm basically an emotional toilet (except, all I do on EC is unload all my silly little problems and never give anything back in return, so I'm probably no better). My housemate is the same- she throws a tantrum and uses manipulative tactics like the silent treatment when we don't follow her ideas all the time.

    I'm sorry for complaining again. I look up lots of articles and videos about how not to be a people-pleaser but I don't really know the answer. I struggle to see where standing up for youself and being an a***hole begin/end. I need to stop though. I was recently in hospital and didn't have anything to eat or drink for 12 hours, because I was scared the nurses would get angry at me for asking. My health suffered a lot. I'm sorry if I sound whiny. This week has not been good.
     
  7. Sunchimes

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    When you say he was kind enough to sleep with you, because you feel you’re not worthy of it, that you feel unattractive and ugly with mental health issues etc etc this just shows that you have a very low self esteem.

    Being attractive isn’t about how we look. There are many models out there who are incredibly unattractive. It’s all about how we behave, how we treat others, how we carry ourselves through life, etc etc etc. So looking at it this way, he is not the attractive one here. I do believe he knew what he was doing. Yes he paid for your evening but that’s still no excuse to expect sex at the end of it. He manipulated you so that you have ended up feeling so guilty for refusing him sex.

    I understand now why you’re so passive. I’m so sorry your dad behaved so controlling. You have indeed learned how to “keep the peace” and have become passive to avoid conflict. But these life lessons have also made you into a person who wants to fix problems, to help people and to care. That’s the positive of it.

    It doesn’t matter that currently on EC you’re the one who is looking for help at the moment and you’re not offering anything in return. That’s the way how it goes. There will be times in the future when you will be more able to help others on EC. You say you’re always the one who people come to, to offload their problems. Sometimes you need to offload yours as well. At the moment EC is the place where you’re doing that and that’s ok. That’s what EC is for. To get help as well as to help (when you’re able to).

    You’re not complaining and there’s no need to apologise.

    It’s so difficult in life, getting that balance of pleasing others but making sure our own needs are met as well. When you’re a caring person and a passive person such as yourself, the scales can tip where you’re doing all the giving and you’re taking nothing for yourself. People end up walking all over you and you fear displeasing others and just want the peaceful life.

    For some, the scales tip the other way and these people are completely inconsiderate, selfish and don’t care so much for others. They are life’s takers. It’s all about them. They are arrogant, manipulative and usually bully everyone around them in order to get what they want.

    what we need to aim for is a balance of caring for others, giving, and being respectful but at the same time setting boundaries and not giving our all. We have to be assertive enough to not do anything we really don’t want to do even if that means upsetting someone who isn’t understanding enough.

    Communication is key. Telling people what we want, what we don’t want, explaining why etc etc. if someone isn’t happy with that, then that’s their problem not yours. Not everyone reacts with anger or rage. There is no need to be feared.

    Im so sorry you’ve been in hospital recently. In the case of where you hadn’t received any food, I can use an example here of how to deal with such things. Two people could have this happen to them. One person might be irate, angry and demanding of food. This would upset the nurse. Another person would gently just mention to the nurse that they are hungry and is there any chance of getting a bite to eat whenever it’s convenient. The nurse would be empathetic on this case, would probably apologise and go and find some food.

    It’s how we approach situations. Just be kind, but that kindness involves kindness to yourself as well.

    You sound such a lovely person. You’re not Whiny. I’m sorry you’ve not had such a good week.

    We are here for you.
     
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  8. Chip

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    "How to not be a people pleaser" requires changing your beliefs in yourself, and that's why it takes time.

    Until you are at a place where you can say "No. *I* deserve to choose what I will do with my body. *I* get to decide what is comfortable for me. *I* get to do things that make *me* feel good; I don't need to worry about how others feel", then it's going to be near impossible to not be everyone's doormat.

    So the real work is understanding that you're worthy. That there are people who will like you and want to be with you. The experience with your dad explains a lot. The coping strategy your mom modeled was to not stand up for herself, and just basically give in to whatever unreasonable thing your dad asked for. If that's what you see modeled, it's no wonder that's how you behave. It was modeled for you for years.

    As to the other guy... block him and be done. He doesn't deserve anything. You, on the other hand, deserve friends who will respect your boundaries and appreciate you.
     
  9. Sunchimes

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    I’ll second that!
     
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  10. TinyWerewolf

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    It probably is best to just try to forget him, learn from this, and move on. People who act like that are bad news.
     
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  11. lottaotter

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    Thank you @TinyWerewolf @Sunchimes and @Chip I have blocked that guy now. I would try to respond individually as I do appreciate the thorough replies.

    @Chip sorry to ask again, but do you have any idea how I can start to get to this place? Or what I could mention to a therapist to get them to understand what I want to work towards? Sorry if that's a stupid question and it's just a matter of practice.
     
    #31 lottaotter, Apr 21, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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  12. Sunchimes

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    You’re so welcome! No need to reply individually. I’m just glad you’ve blocked him.

    I’m glad you’re considering working with a therapist regarding your goal to become more assertive. Good luck! You’ll get there :slight_smile:
     
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  13. Chip

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    The first thing I'd start with, which is free, are Brené Brown's three TED talks. All on Youtube. In order, "The Power of Vulnerability", "The Price of Invulnerability", and "Listening to Shame." If her work connects, then I recommend her book "The Gifts of Imperfection." Her work on worthiness and shame is the best out there.

    The other thing I'd highly recommend (which will cost you a bit) is Gabor Maté's wonderful video program "Healing Trauma and Addiction." Even though it talks about addiction, it is really about understanding yourself, and the childhood experiences that impact worthiness.

    If you go to a therapist, you'll want someone who works with self-esteem and worthiness, and someone whose specialty is NOT CBT or DBT (those are popular right now, but not particularly helpful for your situation.) Ideally, someone who is skilled in psychodynamic / insight-based approaches. If you find someone that sounds promising, feel free to PM me their website or listing and I'll tell you if I see any red flags.
     
  14. lottaotter

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    Thank you. I have had a listen to Brené Brown a few times but I will try again. I might make a post asking if anyone can explian it in a different way. I (think) I get the 'Be vulnerable' bit but it's the how to be vulnerable/yourseld (and how to carry on when you get shamed for it) that I don't grasp. Not trashing your suggestion here, I'm just stupid when it comes to psychology stuff.

    Do you know how long I've waited to read those words? It seems sometimes in our society that to suggest CBT isn't the instant cure-all for any and all problems is a punishable offense. I feel comfy with the last therapist I saw (have seen her three times). She uses Human Givens primarily, which makes sense to me and I experienced a major improvement since once 'rewind' she did with me.
     
  15. Chip

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    If you really listen to what she's saying, she talks about the pieces that go along with vulnerability. And Gabor's work goes further into that realm. But by all means, if you watch all of the Brené videos and don't understand, post again and I'll try and clarify further.

    The interesting thing is, there's a ton of data on CBT and it is, in fact, effective for a lot of different types of problems. But here's the catch... CBT isn't really about solving the underlying issues that create the problems. It's about dealing with the feelings that come about because of the problems. So when you study the results of CBT treatment 30 days or 6 months later, you often see good results. But when you look a year or three later, you often see that the problems have returned... because it didn't do anything about the underlying issues. Insurance loves it because it's cheap and short-term compared to insight-based therapy. But increasingly, since the early 2010s, therapists are now being taught to look at insight-based treatment for trauma and childhood issues (which, realistically, is practically every mental health disorder) and it's experiencing a resurgance.
     
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  16. lottaotter

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    @Chip I have listened to the three Brown videos you recommended. I listened without watching this time, and I made sure I was in a good mood before I started- to be completely honest it has always been difficult for me to get past the thought of "This is a wealthy, highly-educated, straight, white, American woman telling me I just have to 'be myself' ". I know I'm not alone in that but I did manage to get past that a bit. The need for her to fill audiences and sell books obviously impacts the way she comes accross but I made notes and if you don't mind and have time (no rush) could you have a look at the below and see if I am right? Much appreciated.

    I have condensed my notes:
    • Shame= fear of disconnection= 'There is something about me that, if seen, will cause me to be unworthy of connection'
    • We have to allow ourselves to be seen to achieve connection
    • A sense of love and belonging goes hand-in-hand with a sense of connection. The people who have this believe they're worthy of it
    • We have to have the courage to be imperfect and believe what makes us vulnerable (imperfect) also makes us beautiful
    • We have to be who we are, not who we think we should be
    • Be authentic
    • Society/culture encourages 'scarcity'- 'I'll never be enough or have enough'
    • Should be grateful for ordinary things, rather than chasing 'extraordinary' things (God was I glad to hear this- it really actually made me feel happy!)
    • Shame says 'You're not enough' and 'Who do you think you are?'
    • You can't wait to be bulletproof (perfect) before going into the arena (taking a risk). And that's not what the audience want to see anyway
    • The bit about what society's expectations on men was veeeeery interesting to me, as someone who has been shamed for supposedly lacking masculinity in the past- and just as Brown says, it's rarely the Dads, Grandads, brothers and other men who are doing the 'not mascunline enough' shaming, but women. That's been my experience to, and has left me with this desperate need to haev approval and validation from women, even though I'm a gay man.

    Questions:
    • Although I don't like myself very much, I would still say I'm a kind and caring person. But what I got from the talks is that I'm actually not, since I'm not often compassionate to myself. Does this make me an uncaring and unkind person?
    • I also felt a bit affronted about being told to be more grateful. I felt I have always tried to show my gratitude to people who do things for me- I always feel guilty when anyone responds to my posts on here, for example. How should I be more grateful?
    • I felt panicked when I thought about sharing my 'me-ness' with other people. Hobbies, interests, opinions. It doesn't scare me as much as it did when I was a child or teenager, but it's still a risk. I try to be honest about them anyway despite the fear of ridicule. Am I on the right track here? What other examples of being vulnerable could I try to bring into my life?
    • The thought of acting like I have worth raised 'disgusted' feelings in me straight away. I was raised to value modesty and putting others first above all else. Should I try to think about where these things came from in childhood? Write down incidents where my parents shamed me (because they were feeling ashamed of me)

    As I said, please don't feel obligated to answer any of this if you don't have time.

    Does anyone else have any ideas about how I can be more vulnerable. I do quite a bit (compared to how I used to be) but the feelings of worthiness are yet to come :frowning2:
     
  17. Chip

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    You've got the above correct.

    Questions:

    • It doesn't mean you are unkind in general. It means you are unkind to yourself (or, more precisely, that you are having difficulty showing compassion to yourself) Kristin Neff's work on self compassion would be helpful to more fully understand this.
      Again, you are showing gratitude to others. It sounds like you have difficulty feeling gratitude for yourself and what you have. As in, grateful to be able to seek out understanding of your difficulties, and to understand them. Grateful for your health, intelligence, having shelter and food... that sort of thing. This goes back, in part, to self-compassion.
      This is exactly it. 'vulnerable' means 'capable of being wounded'. So when you are making yourself vulnerable, you are putting a part of yourself out there that people could use to hurt you, and hoping for support and encouragement. Brené describes an example as standing naked on stage and hoping for applause rather than laughter.
      Yes, exactly. This is where you need to really explore where those beliefs came from.
    It takes time. But also, remember, Brené tells us that it isn't just being vulnerable; it is, in her words, "sharing our story with those who have earned the right to hear it."

    Gabor Maté's "Power of Connection" is free to watch. It's about 70 minutes. It doesn't go into the detail that Healing Trauma and Addiction does, but it is a good start.

    Also, Debbie Ford's "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers" book is excellent.
     
    #37 Chip, Apr 28, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
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  18. lottaotter

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    That is good to know. Thanks for reading over my notes.

    I've heard of Kristin Neff- I'll add her to the list of work to have a look at, thanks.

    It takes time. But also, remember, Brené tells us that it isn't just being vulnerable; it is, in her words, "sharing our story with those who have earned the right to hear it."
    [/QUOTE]
    Thanks, this makes a lot more sense now. It's a good caveat to avoid oversharing or emotionally 'dumping' on strangers (because that happens to me a lot, for some reason!).

    It's probably worth be paying for the resources you mentioned earlier, but I will have a look at the free talk. Thanks again for being patient.
     
  19. Phil0110

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    It seems to me, that you don't even attract him as a person, he just likes to have sex with you. You shouldn't get over yourself
     
  20. Prisma

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    I'm so glad you stood up for yourself and followed your heart. Similar experience along time ago and worse outcome for me. But I learned. I think you want something more meaningful than he wants anyways.
     
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