1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

I'll never be a real guy

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Oddish, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Nick07

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come on, you have a gf, are only 19 and are out. You are doing much better than half of the trans people here.
     
  2. PossumJack

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Your dysphoria is real, and it's crippling, and I understand that sort of hatred for you own body. Genetics is cruel for giving us an extra X chromosome instead of the Y we should have gotten instead. There are days when I look into the mirror and want to smash it with my hands just so the disgusting girl on the other side would stop staring back at me. I know what it's like to have those dark, shitty days and I sympathize with you.

    But it's not about tricking yourself, it's about acceptance. It's about admitting to yourself that there will always be things you can't change. You'll always have that X chromosome, your body will always be biologically female. It's not anyone's fault. The only thing you can do is to move on and improve the things you can improve. Hell, life is a shitpile for pretty much everyone, it's important to concentrate on the good things and at least trying to fix the things that are broken.
     
  3. Just Jess

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denver
    Okay. You're right. We weren't helping. I can't say for sure I wouldn't have called anyone worse names.

    What can we do or say to help? Other than just say what works for us? Which is what people were trying to do, as far as I can tell? I know it sounds like they were trying to downplay this stuff. Maybe one or two of them were. But I know firsthand how much dysphoria sucks. I definitely wouldn't do that.

    I am not just tricking myself into feeling better. I do a ton of shit to cope. That isn't one of those things. I'm transitioning to deal with the real problems underneath, so I don't have to do things to cope so often. Not to be a "real girl". To be me, the person I want to be, inside and outside, all the time. With most of the advantages most women take for granted. Fuck being a "real girl". I'm me. I'm not going to let the bastards grind me down, and I am going to accomplish my goals in life.

    What transition will do, is it will mean that I don't have to walk out the door and hear "sir". I don't have to feel exactly as much like shit when I shower as you do - or especially when I'm kidding myself into thinking I can have sex - I can put that behind me. I don't need that in my life, and it won't be. It will mean I won't have a chemical in my body slowly making me more male. This is hard to type, but I already don't have to wake up with a boner and the unique kind of disgusting dread that makes me feel, which is really fortunate, because I take the light rail train to work. I can't imagine that situation or I would have lasted very long if I had not started HRT.

    So you know what? I take what I can get. I call myself a woman not because I'm tricking myself or anyone else. I call myself that because I earned it. The same way cis women don't get to be called women until they're over 18 usually. They started out girls. Cis girls aren't women either. I started out living as a boy. But we both grew up and became women. I just had to work a little harder to get there than they do.

    I'll tell you how I cope. I have headphones. I listen to Pandora on my phone. I can't hear the bus driver calling me "sir" when I have to switch back to my old presentation. The music itself helps. I have things I am planning on doing with my life. Goals. I have a to-do list. I check stuff off it, I add stuff to it. I have one responsible roommate who is a slob, and one irresponsible roommate who is at least neat, so pretty much if it has to happen it's on me to do it. And believe it or not that helps.

    I focus on shit that isn't my gender.

    I'm not saying it always works. Don't dismiss that as more Peter Pan advice. It doesn't. An awful lot of the time. But it works often enough, that I get by, day to day and you know what? I'm even happy a lot of the time.

    If that doesn't work for you? Don't use it. Hopefully, though, between all the people in this thread that obviously care for you - and the reason we care is just empathy; we have been there, we see the world fucking with you the way it fucks with us, we want to make sure that even if things didn't go well for us that they at least go better for you because that's about as much of a victory over the world as we're going to get - anyway, if you can pick and choose what does work from our replies? You will probably be able to cope until you can fix some of your underlying problems.

    You may not ever have a little chromosome be different - and let's be real, if it wasn't chromosomes, if you could have a Y one? Both you and other people would just pick something else - but you know what? You have the potential to be one hell of a man. I'm not going to waste time describing the difference between a male and a man, because you're smart enough to know what I'm talking about.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Jan 2015 at 03:12 PM ----------

    And THAT said, chromosomes just determine which hormones you get. Literally every other sex difference is due to hormones. That I'm on. My body is becoming literally female. That's not a trick, that's not something I say to feel better. That's just science.
     
  4. confuzzled82

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Call district W8
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Actually, genetics is only one ofmany factors that determine whathormones your body makes. Though they may be in a minority, there are plenty ofwomen with XY genes, just look at Olympic history, there are just as many men with XX genes.
     
  5. Just Jess

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denver
    That's true as well. The SRY gene usually turns on, and usually gives someone testicles instead of ovaries, in people with it on the Y chromosome, where it usually lives.

    Everywhere I said "usually" there's exceptions. And gonads aren't even the only place the body makes hormones.
     
  6. Dryad

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    772
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I'm sorry to interrupt the thread without having much info and advice to give, but yeah, I have read about a woman who was born with CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome), and didn't knew she had XY chromosomes and testicles (in her abdomen) till she reached puberty. So even biological sex is not black and white. It's chromosomes, it's body shape, it's body hair it's hormone levels, it's complex. Oddish, you probably have heard these things before.
     
  7. DoriaN

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Canada
    This is categorically incorrect.
     
  8. clockworkfox

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Believe me, the last thing I'd tell you to do is to get over it. And I can't speak for everyone else here, but I'm pretty sure that they're not trying to tell you to get over it and move on either. It seems to me like they're suggesting you step back and refocus, at least from what stood out to me as I skimmed this thread.

    I know dysphoria sucks. I know how much it hurts being in the wrong body, and I know how much it hurts when you see cis guys just being, well, cis guys. They take so much for granted. It's easy to be jealous. I know I am.

    The fact is that it is important to try and focus on the things that make you you besides your gender. That's not to say, "Put your fingers in your ears and go LALALALALALALA until you stop giving a shit and can focus on other things", not at all. It's hard, especially on bad days. My god, it's hard. I mean, fuck, gender plays a massive part in our over all identities. I'm not blind to that. But if you dwell too much on the bad hand you were given, you'll go insane. If I've learned anything in going to therapy, it's that if I want to make strides with my gender, I need to work on bringing my life into balance too. Fixing my gender won't necessarily fix everything, no matter how much it feels like it will. It isn't the cure all, but it is a wonderful thing.

    Hell, I spent a solid two years letting myself deteriorate because I was so hung up on what I would never have that I forgot to focus on what I could have. It took me a while to realise what was worth fighting for, what was worth trying to achieve. I wasted two years I could have spent affirming my gender, refining my art skills, finishing my degree, moving out.

    Neither of us will ever be cis guys, but I think we'll still be damn awesome guys. I for one won't settle on being anything less.

    I feel like Jess made a few good points about her transition. She's doing it for her. That's some sage advice if ever I've read it.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    I want to thank both Jess and clockwork for the fantastic, empathetic, helpful advice.

    I suppose my biggest dilemma is that, I have very bad dysphoria, and I can't help but feel completely envious of cisgender men who were born with all of the correct parts, and never have to go through this pain - and my brain fills with all of the 'what ifs' and 'if onlys' which aren't only unproductive, but they're seriously dragging me into a hole in which I can't escape.

    I'm kind of frustrated with some cisgender people in my life who have, while been open to discussion, don't seem to grasp how bad my dysphoria is, and don't acknowledge how grateful they should be for what they have, and I can never seem to get a direct response from them whenever I'm feeling dysphoric. My girlfriend has even hesitated to answer the, "So, am I really a guy or not?" questions, and there's hardly any positive reinforcement. It frustrates me the most, though, that as a cisgender female, she can't acknowledge how lucky she is to have a body thousands of trans girls would kill for. Same with some cis male friends of mine, have no clue what I'd do just to have the body they have - to have the comfort they have - to not have to wince, cry, or even want to take a knife to my genitalia or even my hips, or my face, out of dysphoria. It frustrates me how good they have it, and how I have to suffer because I unfortunately wasn't born with the same body privileges. I'm so envious, and when my friends and when cisgender people in general are dumbfounded, it only drives me further into frustration and despair.

    I just want a way to cope with the dysphoria, and I think I desperately need to have bottom surgery at some point, because I can't even stand to use the bathroom anymore - but I also can't seem to cope with not having the real, biological parts. If the incongruence between mind and body didn't exist, nobody would have dysphoria in the first place, so I actually feel like the struggle I've had is completely logical, and I desperately need a solution.
     
  10. Just Jess

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denver
    It would be really awesome if there was a gun that made a cis person trans for a few seconds. Evil. But awesome.
     
  11. justjade

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Canton, Ohio, US
    Oddish, c'mon, bro, you are a real guy! I know it's science, but fuck biology. If I could run my ass over there and smack the female out of you, I would. You do deserve to be a guy. You have as much right to be a guy as any other guy. Byron's right. We all fall into that trap. I know I do. We're all going to go through it. Why does it matter if we're female? How is it any of anyone's business? You are who you are. Fuck everything. All that matters is that you are who you are, and no one, not even your own body can tell you otherwise. Keep your chin, up, brother. We're all in this together.
     
  12. Acm

    Acm Guest

    I know how you feel. Unfortunately I don't really have any good advice to offer here. I know the results aren't perfect, but you could always try to get bottom surgery. I just wish dysphoria was recognized as the crippling condition it can be, and as far as mainstream trans knowledge goes, it doesn't get talked about very much, so people have no idea how bad it can be. I get really jealous of cis guys, I feel like I deserve to have the right body more than they do, which is pretty messed up to think, but I can't help it. Dysphoria is pretty destructive on the mind. Maybe the technology used for surgery will advance in the future, that's what I'm hoping for.

    :shrug: Sorry this wasn't very helpful
     
  13. clockworkfox

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I understand your frustration. It seems like many cis people, while well-meaning, still don't entirely understand the struggles that gender dysphoria brings to the table for us. I have been incredibly forunate in that many of the cis people I'm out to have been understanding enough to refer to me the way I want to be referred without much fuss, and even if they still have a way to go with understanding, they're empathetic enough to piece the struggle together. They might not get it, but I am incredibly grateful that they're trying, and there haven't been too many pitfalls there.

    Unfortunately, for all trans people but especially for transguys (we're still considered "hypothetical" in many cis minds, as in, not real), we sometimes have to be our own advocates. And that's hard, because quite frankly gender incongruence is harder to explain than it should be, and particularly closed minds don't respond to the "imagine if you were born in the wrong body" talk that many of us use to try and highlight the problems (I've had closed minds say "well then I'd be a _____, and I'd probably like _______ gendered things and be cool with it", which misses the point entirely). Sometimes it just won't all click for some people until you hit a certain point in the physical element of your transition. That's frustrating, but ok - what's important is that they get there, and they will in their own time. What's harder to handle is that they don't seem to be able to grasp how wonderful it is that they're comfortable in their own skin. That is a gift we weren't afforded, and you're not wrong for feeling frustrated at the lack of understanding cis people seem to have here. I wish I had some advice to give you to make everyone get it, and see that they're taking this privilege for granted, but I don't. Sure, cis people might not be comfortable with various changeable elements of their bodies, but the basics are right. For us, the basics aren't right, and I wish it was easier for them to see that. I would give anything for the simple task of waking up and getting dressed in the morning to not be a struggle. I completely empathise with you here.

    I am very lucky to not have genital dysphoria. But I have experienced dysphoria similar to what you've described, up to and including the temptation to cut my face and thighs out of frustration. Cutting used to be my unhealthy method of coping before I pieced myself together, and I did once cut my chest in a dysphoric fit. I'm clean many years now, and I would definitely reccommend you not sink to this method of coping. It doesn't help.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Jan 2015 at 10:42 PM ----------

    They're making strides every day. I mean we can grow new functioning organs from people's own cellular tissue now. Who knows what they'll be able to do within the next decade or so?
     
    #53 clockworkfox, Jan 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  14. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    There are people who are born with XY chromosomes and are also born with vaginas and a 100% female phenotype. Just look up androgen insensitivity, It's becoming more and more common and I completely assure you that even if you were XY (With this condition) you would have the same kind of dysphoria as you would be read as female and not male. Chromosomes are unimportant and irreverent to your gender and how the world views you. If you are cis, then the wrong chromosomes affects fertility, but doesn't change how your gender is viewed.

    HRT and SRS does help in getting rid of some of those secondary sex characteristics that makes it easier to be comfortable in your body. As of now, SRS is more successful for trans women, but you never know how much surgery will advance in the future.

    With all that being said, I do understand the anger and frustration and how much it sucks. Never be afraid to vent, that's what we're here for.
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    I'd probably abuse it, so maybe it's a good thing that hasn't been invented yet. And rather than a few seconds, I'd prefer it to be for a few hours...

    I guess I'm just hung up because my body parts are technically female and my brain map doesn't correspond with it, so my dysphoria is terrible. I mean, yeah, I can acknowledge I'm a guy, but again nothing feels congruent.. but thanks.

    True, I was being kind of contradictory with the chromosome argument. I guess I just wish I were biologically male, irregardless of any chromosomal differences or abnormalities.
    I wish SRS were improved for trans men, because I really want it. I can't stand my genitalia anymore, and it needs to seriously go, before I take a knife and ruin it myself. I wish surgeons and doctors would understand the pain so that they could work on improving it, and insurance companies took gender dysphoria seriously because nobody should have to feel like how I am, full of despair for being in the wrong body.

    Thank you. I needed to vent/rant and I'm sorry for being an asshole originally, but I've been bottling up this shit for far too long and I had to let it out somewhere.