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I'll never be a real guy

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Oddish, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Pret Allez

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    Hey, brother, please stay with us. I for one have never viewed your problems as trivial. They are quite substantial and worth talking about.

    What you identified about the queer community not having a lot of solidarity was also quite important. We very much need real access to transition care. And part of how we are going to get it is if more than just trans people care about transition care.

    There are a few people around here how do, and they are cisgender folks. People like Aldrick, for example, how is one of our most forceful advocates.

    You're not without friends or people who care. People watch over you, even at a distance.

    I've always been impressed by your spirit, your forcefulness of advocacy, and your authenticity. You've always been more of a man than all of my friends.

    We live in interesting times with amazing medical advances. I wouldn't want you to think you never can transition.
     
  2. NHDave

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    There's an prayer I see often in various versions, but it's basically "God, grant me the wisdom to understand and accept what can't be changed." For the record, I'm not religious, but the sentiment of this prayer is apt. Essentially, this is what gender therapists help you do. Fix what can be changed to the best of your ability and resources, and learn to accept what can't be changed. I don't like the fact that I'm excessively tall and thin, but decided long ago it wasn't worth any emotional energy. Not that this equates with gender identity, but it's an illustration.

    Stop listening to your mother (at least on this subject.) She has her own agenda. Look at all the successful trans-guys. It's hard to imagine their bodies are partially female.
    It WILL get better.
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    I'm growing extremely tired of the hypocritical nature of some trans folks here, who rant and rave about how transsexualism is a medical condition (which I agree with, yes) and requires you experience severe body/sex dysphoria in order to be trans, yet when one of their "brothers" is suffering, or going through a crisis, they are quick to dismiss the pain and instead disacknowledge any hardship and ignorantly state something based on the paradigm of "get over it", the same thing these people rightfully complain about in regards to dismissive attitudes from cisgender people. Ironic, right? Good luck "getting over it". Sorry, if it were that easy, I wouldn't have transitioned in the first place. Neither would have you, fuckwit. Because your dysphoria isn't as bad as mine is right now, that doesn't mean you can act like I have the ability to just look down at my genitals, snap my fingers, put a smile on my face and say "I love my private parts and everything is OK".

    I know there are supportive people and out there, and for that, I commend them. Instead of bashing a trans person going through hell due to bad dysphoria, stop fucking blaming them and start identifying the real problem: lack to access for proper healthcare and the lack of awareness in attempts to advance the medical side of transition, especially surgery.

    I'm so sorry that I feel like shit and people can't seem to understand why I do, and in turn want to blame me for it. That's really fucking rich. At least some people here are compassionate and understanding, because they at least know how hopeless you can feel or be when your dysphoria is at its peak, or they're simply empathetic or emotionally intelligent enough to grasp how straining this pain is. And with that said, I really do appreciate some of the longer, well thought-out posts from people who do understand where I'm coming from, rather than replying in a dismissive nature.
     
  4. Lazuri

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    While I think you're right and understand what you are feeling, I can't help but feel that the point you're trying to make would've been much clearer if you'd be able to make it without such a hostile and abrasive attitude. You're basically just coming off as an immature teenager shouting and spitting at everybody around you.

    Manners don't cost you anything and I think the people you complain about wouldn't be quite as dismissive if you weren't so full of vinegar.
     
  5. drwinchester

    drwinchester Guest

    And you know what? Yeah. Dysphoria is a medical condition. Yes, we have a long way to go. But you know what? It's not the worst thing that can happen to you.

    Am I glad I'm trans? I mean, I wouldn't have chosen it if I had the choice. f I woke up tomorrow with a penis, I'd be thrilled. But it's not something that's going to prevent me from living my life the way I want to live it.

    Yeah, I have to pee with a piece of plastic. I can't top my boyfriend without a little help. Tax season is awful because of legal name bullshit and so is dealing with medical stuff. I hate wearing a binder. I'd love to have more than two little scraggly hairs on my chin.

    But you know what? I'm still a guy at the end of the day. Maybe I have more Xs than I'd like in my chromosomes but no one gives a shit about what your chromosomes are, unless you've got some rare chromosomal disorder that no one's seen before.

    I identify as a bear in the gay community because for me, I see my body as a bear's. I might not be uber hairy (but I'll be honest, I have more body hair than my own cis male brother). But I see myself as a male with a microdick and gynomastia. Maybe you can call that delusional. But it helps. And I'll be honest. I know bears who have bigger chests than me.

    Do I still have my days? Yeah. I hate talking on the phone because I'm not on hormones yet. I still bemoan my chest.

    But it doesn't make anything better just sitting around and feeling bitter about it.

    You know, when I first joined EC, my life kinda sucked. My mother was a piece of work to say the least. I had to sneak male clothing in my backpack every day, going to college. I was suicidal and I self harmed, if I wasn't gorging my face just so I could feel a little less empty inside. I made very similar rants and if you hunted, you could find them all over EC.

    But eventually, things got better. They didn't get better just from sitting around though. I eventually got a job. I moved out. Started seeing a counselor and then a therapist. And after a while, I just stopped talking to my mother. When I was having problems at work from being outed by a manager, I resigned and got a better one.


    I don't have an 8 inch penis or abs. But the family I do talk to is awesome. I'm working my dream career right now. I have an amazing partner who loves me for me.

    Yeah, I'm FTM. I'm not on hormones yet. I've never had top surgery. Are things perfect? Hell no. But being transgender is absolutely not the worst thing anyone can be.

    I'd rather live the next ten lifetimes as an FTM man versus being selfish, cruel, spiteful, or spineless in any one of them.

    You identify as male. You live as male. Therefore, why does that not make you a real guy?

    "Oh my genitals aren't male." Isn't that exactly what transphobic politicians and assholes tell us day in and day out? That all that matters are your parts? Then why are you telling yourself that? Do you believe that a person should only be judged by their parts and chromosomes? Then what makes you better than those people who tell us that day in and day out?
     
  6. PossumJack

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    Thanks. Just...thanks. I've been feeling like shit lately, thinking about how even when I do get HRT I'll just be a weird scrawny 5'1" baby-faced transman, and how I'll never look the way cismen get to look. Your post was a slap to the face I sorely needed, because hey, there are much shittier things out there than being trans, and moaning about dysphoria isn't going to make it go away.
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    I know it isn't the worst thing but when we start trying to compare who has it worse and why, we're starting to battle and play the oppression olympics everyone so despises. Just because someone might be blind or might be dealing with melanoma, it doesn't mean that all of a sudden, something is going to click in my brain, and I'm going to be the happiest person on this planet.

    Unfortunately people do care about chromosomes. Anyone in healthcare definitely does, potential dating partners probably want to know that I was born biologically female, hell, if it didn't matter, why do people decide to go stealth? People are incredibly nosy when it comes to trans folks, and if nobody cared about chromosomes or genetic makeup, we wouldn't be having as many discriminatory cases as we do now. We wouldn't be getting murdered for "playing dress-up," or having people want to beat us to a bloody pulp for "acting like a [boy/girl] when we have [XX/XY] chromosomes".

    I guess we cope with things differently, but I personally feel ashamed that I don't have a penis, and that I'll never have a real one. My bottom dysphoria is at an all-time high, and trying to trick myself that I'm biologically male and that my enlarged clit is a dick isn't helping me anymore, because I'm tired of fabricating the truth when, no matter how much I want to call my body male, or my genitals male, the moment I take my pants off, I've got a vagina and a biologically female body, that no amount of money could possibly make right.

    Sure, I'm of the male gender, I'll say that. But I'm of the female sex, and I cannot, ever, alter that completely. Basically the sex I was assigned with at birth is a huge nuisance, it's a ball and chain which can never be severed, and it's causing me daily agony. It has been.

    Ha, that's the thing. My life, besides the dysphoria, is pretty good. I'm a biomed/psych student, I have good grades, a high GPA, I tutor kids who need help, I have a loving girlfriend, decent friends, and I'm working on moving out and living on my own. You've brought this up before, and I don't understand the relevance, because I'm in a good place but even after I move out, my dysphoria will not suddenly vanish or deplete like it has for you, fortunately. You make it sound like I just sit around, and wallow - not at all, my friend. I do anything I can to keep myself preoccupied, and I've been doing good things with my life; it's just that when the dysphoria attacks me, it causes me to downspiral and I seriously can't let it go. Do you think I enjoy feeling like this? I seriously cannot accept that I was handed this piece of shit body, and have to be reminded of it every single day, and because of that, I can't escape the dysphoria.

    Also, if my genitals are male, and we can essentially convince every trans person experiencing bottom dysphoria that their genitalia corresponds with their identified gender, then please tell me why bottom surgery is even a thing, and why people actually sacrifice and work as hard as they can to have the procedure done? It's a necessity for some people with extremely awful dysphoria, and to shrug that off and act like I can just completely shut off the tension and anxiety I feel about my genitalia, is an ignorant thought in itself.
     
  8. DoriaN

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    Ignoring most of the topic, not out of rudeness or disregard, but rather because many sides hold merit and truth; it depends what you want.

    Is having proper genitalia equal to life itself? Is there nothing worthy to live for or to be gained or given in life, past being physically whole? Are you unable to love another because of your body?

    If the answer is no, then like the rest of us, we have to keep pushing forward.

    Can you live your life without being anatomically perfect? Can you share moments, create memories, and be a better you day by day? Can we save others from hurt? Are we able to change things for the better? Is not our future brighter than those of the past? Is there not power at our fingertips to decide the destiny?

    If the answer is yes, then do we not owe it to ourselves and loved ones to suffice the evil of the day unto itself, and show that we are greater than merely dust? Than just flesh that is destined to fade?


    It's not easy, nor do I rejoice that we are afflicted in this manner, but we're not alone, we did not choose; but we can change.

    Are humans infallible?
    If not, then why are women assigned athletes with functioning endocrine systems of their assigned gender and sex, disqualified from competitions for having XY chromosomes? Nature itself teaches that gender is more than genetics! Nature itself has LGBT creations, and even some that are asexual or change their gender!
    Would you deny one who is intersex their identity? They are either both male and female, or neither.

    Human hate and prejudice know no bounds, so why must we gratify that?
    To one a person cannot change gender, to another blacks are wicked sinners. To another peanut butter is disgusting, to another religion is revolting. One views the world spiritually, another physically.

    If we took everything everyone feels, none should by rights exist, have been, or will be.
    So why should we measure ourselves with a metrestick that does not measure more than a metre?

    As someone who is Christian, transgender, and bisexual, I feel like I cannot make /anyone/ happy; but can others make me happy?

    For myself I'm thankful I'm trans.. For as many nights I still cry over it.
    It tests my mettle, and opens my eyes to things I would have otherwise been blind to.
    I can see the world for what it is, and relate to people I could not have before.

    I can say I experienced privilege, then cast it aside, who can deny my testimony that is my heart?
    It's a cruel world, and yeah.. It sucks. But there is a beauty to it, and everyone should be entitled to love and dignity.

    Just know you are not alone, and we all care for ja.. Even if we don't all say it.
    There will /always/ be someone who cares, and knows.

    I apologize if I missed the mark at all, just felt like expressing.
    We all hurt.
    But it also makes for great bonding! I wouldn't have read your testimony otherwise <3
    Love ja brother! <3 <3
     
  9. SkyColours38

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    Ok first off, I can relate pretty strongly to what you're saying, and I often have to struggle with myself to 'justify' my gender identity. That said, it is worth noting that even 'biological sex' and chromosomes don't fit a perfect binary. Have a look at these posts if you want more info on that. They're from Tumblr, so the urls probably look weird and off-topic, but it'll make sense once you click:
    you rumbled my jamies, bustysaintclair: checkingprivilege: ...
    anti - sex is biological??????????????? go open a biology...
     
  10. Just Jess

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    I don't think he's trying to prove a point. I think he's found a safe place to vent. Sometimes you just need to get your pain out there, and be listened to, for a few minutes. He's just giving himself what he needs to get by, I think.

    Today, I felt a lot like an immature teenager because someone called me "sir" when I was out as myself. I didn't react then, but I was way mopey and unbearable the rest of the day. I knew exactly how I was coming off. But I had the most wonderful friend in the world with me, that just listened, and said she understood how much it hurt. I've done the same thing for her a lot.

    I understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't post stuff like this on my facebook. It does give cis people, heck even other people in the queer community, the wrong idea about us when they see the pain but don't have any way to understand it.

    But he's not on facebook. He's here, in a support forum. And can let out all the vinegar he wants in my opinion. You can't let out that kind of frustration and pain if you are worried about proper etiquette. That's a bit like handing Picasso a coloring book and chiding him for coloring outside the lines. This stuff just isn't stuff you can talk about at all while keeping up appearances.

    Maybe instead, we should be asking ourselves what we did to make him defensive. Every single one of us started off just trying to help, right? What went wrong after that?
     
  11. Ronin

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    What you're experiencing is a legitimate problem. I think about it too. Sure, there's worse things. There's always worse things. But these are the things we're experiencing right now. They're real. They're hard. They suck, big time. They aren't things anyone, anyone should have to live with, even under the best of circumstances. It's not something that's going to magically vanish, hell, it might haunt me for the rest of my life. And it's lonely because no one around me really gets it. They usually just make things worse. I'm sorry you have to go through this too. I wish there was a way to change all this. I'm still mourning over the body I'll never have. Maybe they'll never be as good as what I could have had without this. It's really not fair. I feel jealous and angry about what's been robbed sometimes. But things can get better. I can still make a meaningful life out of what I've been given. I just... have to do what needs to be done to get there. Get through it. Persevere. There is still value to be had from this life. I do hear you though, and I'm here for you. Vent all you need my friend. We need to help each other out when the going gets tough, and things are tough for you right now.
     
    #31 Ronin, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  12. DragonHerz

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    Maybe that's the problem. A lot of trans people commit suicide, and I don't think anyone is trying to dismiss anyone's feelings, but it's probably natural that people here try to counter negative feelings, and try to help, because of the fear. It's easy to forget that sometimes people just need to vent, to express their pain, because there isn't an ideal solution, not now, not yet. Maybe it will be possible one day, to change your sex, or choose to identify as whichever gender you want, but it's not possible now, and if no one expresses the need, if no one tries to find a better solution, nothing will will ever change.

    I didn't even know what my problem was until recently, why I've never felt comfortable with my body, and treat it so badly. On the one side, it's a relief to know what the problem is, and that there are others like me, that I can stop trying to be something I'm not ... but in a way it makes it worse. Forget about cis-guys, I get jealous of transmen who can pass. Heck, I even get jealous of women who have masculine features, because they could pass if they wanted to. I'm not very tall, I don't have a male shape at all, even if I had top surgery, and my face is not masculine. Even if I started a medical transition at my age, with all of the trouble associated with it, I'd probably never pass. I want to look like other guys, but I don't. And it sucks. There's no way around it.

    Sometimes other people make it worse. Not just the transphobes. People who are friends, family, loved ones, prople who I respect and admire, who mean well, but just don't understand. Who think it's all in your head, or a phase, or a fetish, something to grow out of or get over, that I just have to accept that I'm a woman and move on. Even though after many years of trying to please others, I've gotten to the point where I don't really give a crap what other people think anymore, it still bothers me. Humans are a social species, it hurts when we don't fit in.

    Obviously I have to live with my body, and with the way things are, but it doesn't mean I don't sometimes mourn the fact that things can't be different.
     
  13. Nick07

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    Oddish, your posts become more and more offensive. Not because of the words you use, but because how you see trans people. You don't just talk about you, but about all of them. And you start sounding transphobic.
    I have no idea why you brought up surgeries when your problem is your chromosomes. If you have a problem even with that, no surgery can help you and unless you change your attitude, you will feel miserable. Long way ahead.
     
  14. Lazuri

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    I get that. Venting frustration can be therepeutic, but venting is one thing, calling others "fuckwit" and just being generally hostile isn't venting, it's just being offensive and I have little patience for that.
     
  15. confuzzled82

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    You know what, you're 17. You're in a much better spot starting now than even if you started 5 years later. And, HRT will help shape you a ton more than it's ever going to shape me. I'm going to be forever stuck with broad shoulders and a large rib cage. And, down the line, you'll appreciate the slightly younger face that you'll have. Sure, in the short term, it'll be a problem, but it'll straighten itself out.
     
  16. Lazuri

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    Nah, you're being too negative. Shoulder width is almost exclusively fat and muscle and does go away with HRT and correct posture. Broad ribcage I'll give you, but the biggest issue it gives you is that breasts look smaller in comparison to a woman with a thinner ribcage.
     
  17. confuzzled82

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    I can easily feel the bones in my shoulders, though...
     
  18. Lazuri

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    At the very top of the shoulder, yes, but that's not were the width is most apparent. It's further down where there's just muscle and fat. How else do guys increase and decrease in shoulder width when they gain or lose weight/buffness?

    And again, posture is important. Try looking in the mirror and look at the difference between normal posture and standing with your back straight and shoulders back. It makes a surprising difference.

    Your shoulders will be a little broader than a cis female but trust me, it's negligible in most cases.
     
  19. Just Jess

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    I do agree with that. Calling anyone "fuckwit" is something that does not belong here, period.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Jan 2015 at 10:03 AM ----------

    Depressed people in a lot of pain are really hard to help. I've learned the hard way that sometimes, you start getting that kind of hostility, you just back off for a while. It's incredibly hard to do. You feel walked over, you feel like nothing's going to change if you don't confront them directly.

    And you absolutely should confront people, and shouldn't appease people or act like everything they are doing is okay. It's not. I just said no apologies that Oddish was out of line. I'm saying this in a different post.

    I have just learned to wait until I can say that with sympathy, and the other person doesn't feel backed into a corner. That's the only time people change, and really listen to you.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    Sorry for calling someone "fuckwit" when they're basically telling me that my dysphoria is child's play and that I'm being stubborn for not letting it go. Gee, that is such good help. Next time go to a clinically depressed person and tell them something similar, and lets see how far it gets the both of you.

    I'm tired of having to explain myself. Yes, my chromosomes bother me because they contain the genetic makeup of my body, which includes my genitalia. Had I been born XY, I'd have a penis, and I'd feel fantastic but of course I was fucked over at birth so I have to deal with this piece of crap one that never fails to send me into a downspiral every time I use the restroom, take a shower, get dressed, etc. Things cis people don't even have to think twice about doing - I have to take every cautious step, because if I look at something for too long, or if I'm exposed to my naked body, I will feel borderline suicidal.

    How am I supposed to be happy, and trick myself that my body is male, because it seems like that's what everyone else is doing to cope. I mean, good luck when you tell your doctor or someone you met on an app that you're a male even though you have biologically *female* parts, because deluding yourself will definitely help you.