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I think being gay has made me a worse person

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Destin, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Destin

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    Not that I was a great dude to begin with, but over the last year since discovering it I don't feel like the same person anymore. I used to be pretty chill about everything and now I get into arguments pretty often. I used to be more optimistic. I was less stressed. I was nicer to people. My fun was less self-destructive. I didn't sleep around with people while in a relationship...and well, now I'm pretty bad at monogamy.

    Even in my posts here I can actually see myself getting worse over time by reading them in order. My first few posts here were all super happy and excited, and now my last 100ish posts are mostly depressing, argumentative, or end with me getting called out on something bad. Even my helpful posts are less helpful than before.

    Some of it I know is because of the gay scene - I don't know how people maintain monogamy while having gay friends, because literally every time I'm around young gay guys there's extreme pressure to engage in hookups to the point where I feel like that's all any of my gay friends care about and I'd lose them all as friends if I didn't.

    Thinking of my family used to make me feel safe and loved, now it just makes me angry and resentful.

    A few hours ago a random homeless guy tried begging me for money and I condescendingly flipped a nickel in his direction while walking away. That's not me... I'd never have done that a year ago. I don't know what happened. I don't know why I did that. I don't know how to change it back to the way I used to be either...

    A lot of people say they felt like they acted more genuine after coming out. Well apparently my genuine self is just being an annoying dick then. Great....
     
  2. Lone Wolfe

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    Mostly, it sounds like you are hanging around with a bunch of gay dicks (pun intended). You need to up your game and find some better, not as easy, gay friends to hang around with. Maybe a professional gay group?
     
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  3. Destin

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    There aren't any here as far as I can tell. It's a small community in a southern college town. My current group already includes a few professors twice my age. They're not really any better than the students.
     
  4. Chierro

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    Probably your biggest issue is your family, man. You coming out has caused a LOT of turmoil and conflict. And I'm really not blaming that on you. Your family isn't exactly the most accepting...but before coming out you cared about them. Now there's this turmoil and it's causing you conflict. You haven't had it easy...at all. I remember reading Niagara's really long post really early on here and seeing you join. A lot of us have kept up with everything going on in your life.

    You're not wrong, there has been a noticeable difference in how you act. You did go from upbeat and positive (mostly) to argumentative. If you don't like how you've become...make a change.

    Being gay didn't change you, the events surrounding and following your coming out did, in my opinion.

    Let me ask you this: what do you want?
     
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  5. weary

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    @Destin I agree with Chierro. Our entire lives change after coming out and it's an adjustment - a big one. Take a breather and re-evaluate who you hang with and what you want. Then make the changes you need for yourself. If you feel argumentative or depressed, relax and take a breath before speaking/doing. It will get better.
     
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  6. Destin

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    I've spent way too long thinking about this sentence so this might be more in depth than you were asking about but here we go.

    - I want for my family, and more specifically my mom, to not hate me and be upset by my existence which includes the gay stuff. I want to make her happy and satisfied with her only non-disabled son, not feel like I'm a failure who just disappoints her and ruins her dreams of having biological grandchildren.

    - I want my dad to value me as a person and care about me instead of his work always being more important and valuable than me. The only way that ever seemed to happen was when I became his work, by asking him about science and medical things. So I'm sure a big reason I practically kill myself in my science classes to be perfect in all of them is to get him to care more about me one day and be proud.

    - I want to be a good example for and protect my newly discovered closeted bisexual/lesbian sister so she can feel safer and not have to be afraid of her feelings like I was/still am.

    - I want my boyfriend to have someone to be there for him always and who deserves his unconditional love and support that he's given this entire time despite me not treating him right by sleeping around and hurting him without meaning to other ways. The longer this goes on the more I'm realizing that person isn't me...and I don't know why he hasn't dumped me by now or what I'll do after it inevitably happens. I've slept in the university library and my car more than a few times just because I felt too ashamed and guilty to look him in the eyes after doing things I know he doesn't like. I tell him I need to study all night for a test so he doesn't worry about me. Notice how he doesn't post here anymore really? It's because of me. Seeing my posts about hookups and other things upset him so he just stopped logging in.

    - I want a lot of friends, which I have, because I never want to be the lonely kid who has no one to spend time with ever again like I was every single time my family moved to a new place. I can't be alone. The longer I'm alone the more my mind turns on itself and I feel worse and hate myself more exponentially until someone else is there and I'm not alone anymore. It's one of the reasons my family is so important to me. They were always there. Always. When i felt bad about myself I could go spend time with them and make it go away. Now I can't do that anymore and it hurts having my safest place in life taken away.

    - I want to help people, ideally medically, so I'll objectively have some value and usefulness. Even if I'm a terrible person at least if I can help people through my job I'll be making a positive difference. There'll be some reason for my life to exist, some meaning and purpose that'll stay here after I die so I won't feel like I have a useless and self-serving life...like I do now. Yeah people say you can volunteer or whatever, but it's not enough. It's never enough - I need to do more to prove to myself there's a reason for me to exist. Otherwise, what's the point of being alive just to drift around aimlessly accomplishing and improving nothing of significance. I have so much guilt just from literally existing - My twin brother is severely disabled since birth and I'm not. Why am I not, why does he have to suffer his entire life when I don't, he would probably be a better person than me if I were the disabled one and he were normal...I need some reason to validate my own existence and prove to myself why I'm the healthy one and why he's had to suffer so long instead of me.

    - I want to not always be a failure. Everything I do ends badly. I try to help someone and end up hurting them. I failed to be a good son. I failed to be a good boyfriend. I'm in the process of failing to be a good brother. I failed at being a good person by always making the wrong decisions. I fail every time someone gets mad at me for making them upset. I fail by not feeling better about all these issues when people try to help me. I even failed at being on this site by accidentally running off my own boyfriend from a site he liked because my own selfishness.

    What I want doesn't matter. Nothing about me matters. I just want to minimize the harm my existence causes to other people at this point.
     
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  7. Devil Dave

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    I don't have gay friends. I find gay men very difficult to be friends with, so I stick with straight friends. And I am happier for it. So you might find that distancing yourself from these friends if they are making you feel that way will be a good thing. Sometimes being the only gay in a group is not so bad.
     
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  8. smurf

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    Its not being gay that is a problem. Is being gay in a world that makes you feel less than for being gay.

    This isn't the end of your journey. This isn't how it ends for you and this is not as good as it will get. You will figure out how to value yourself for who you are, you will learn how to feel enough and not doubt your worth as a human being.

    Are you currently in therapy? It would be really helpful for you to talk with someone that can help guide you through the pain.

    You are very clearly harming yourself because you think that is what you deserve. You sleep with other guys to feel "useful" and quiet your mind, you self-harm with drinking and sex, and you self-sabotage your relationship because you don't think you deserve to be happy. We have all been there. You aren't a horrible person for doing all of those. You are simply surviving to the best of your abilities right now. There is no shame in that.

    It sucks, but you can work through it. There is a way to not feel horrible for being gay.

    I wish I could make it better for you, but the only thing I can offer you is that you aren't alone. We have been through it, we have felt like shit, and you can get out of it.
     
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  9. Totesgaybrah

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    I’ve noticed the changes in the tone of your posts as well and I also noticed that Niagara doesn’t post anymore and I had wondered why that was.

    It’s definitely true that we become who we spend time with. I think taking a step back from your current group of friends could be good for you.
    A few years ago I had a really toxic group of friends who only got worse over the years that I knew them, I slowly became like them in subtle and not so subtle ways.
    After I came out they distanced themselves and then ditched me but I was actually a blessing in disguise.

    I’m really sorry for what you’ve had to go through regarding your family and how they have been since you came out. I hope that someday they will come around, especially since you aren’t the only lgbt+ person in the family.
    Personally I’d try to have a one on one sit down conversation with your mom. Don’t get angry or raise your voice just speak openly and honestly about how you feel, what’s been on your mind and how her actions have affected you.

    I feel bad for Niagara, I never talked to him before but he seemed like a really nice guy. I hope you two can work things out and I really hope he isn’t suffering in silence. I’m not sure what you two have worked out but it doesn’t sound like a totally open relationship. Communication is so key.


    I can’t see myself being “just friends” with gay guys either, I just know we would end up having sex. My friends are mostly straight guys and a couple girls.

    You’re super young and have a bright future ahead of you. You’re obviously intelligent and soon to be fully educated.
    You can turn your attitude around and fix your various relationships.

    Maybe go buy that homeless guy some dinner and Apologize. Instead of feeling like shit after tossing that coin you’ll feel good about doing something good. You want to help people right?
    If you only help the people that can also help you then who are you really helping?

    Good luck Destin.
     
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  10. Chierro

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    I asked what you want, that requires as much depth as you want to give it, man.
    This is a totally understandable desire, and sadly one that is out of your control. Your mom needs to reevaluate things and realize that she should accept you back into her life. Your mom ostracizing you is her issue, man. She needs to realize her mistake.

    And as mentioned before, you still can give her biological grandchildren. I still think that is a ton of pressure for her to place on you, but biological grandchildren are not out of the question if you want biological kids. And let me emphasize...you have to want them.
    You want your dad to care for you, once again, another understandable desire. However, this is something your dad will need to be willing to make the change on. There will be a fractured relationship until he realizes his mistakes. Because they are his mistakes, not yours. I know it hurts, but he has to be willing to change, and until then...things will stay the same. I know it's hard, but you need to focus less on pleasing your dad. If you're doing things simply to have him notice you because they're what he does, that's not a good parent.
    This is great! And you know what? You can do this. If you want to be a good role model and example for your little sister...start. If you don't think you are right now, identify why not, and make the changes.
    You have identified what you want to be...so be it. Start treating him right. Stop sleeping around. Identify what you think that you're doing wrong and make the change. Have you sat down and talked about all of this with him? Like a real, deep conversation? If not...do it.

    You are not some terrible person, Destin. You are a good guy who does some not-so-good things. If you do not like the things you're doing, stop them and change.
    I completely feel this because...I'm there. I want a lot of friends too, but despite that want, I'm picky. Do you like the friends you have? Do you think they're good people? Do you think they're good for you? Your life? Your relationship? If you don't like who you're around...cut them out, man. Find people who are good for you.

    And even if you may not have your parents? What about your siblings? Your relationship with your family will take time to mend, man, but it will eventually.
    You cannot let yourself be burdened by guilt. I do not know what you're experiencing, so I can't speak to it, but carrying around that guilt...it isn't good. You're also not a terrible person.

    If you want to help people, help people. If you want to help people medically, then continue busting your ass in school to do that. If you want it, get it. Push yourself, but don't kill yourself. But there are other ways to help. Volunteering is a great way...it may not seem like a huge impact to you, but it can be a huge impact to someone else.

    I also love helping people, which is why I'm an education major. It's why I work with foster kids over the summer for hardly any pay. There are ways to help people that may not be the most obvious or impact forming. My work with foster kids? It may only be a week out of the year, but it creates a definite impact on those kids.
    People fail every day, man. People fail bad. I disagree with some of your failures, but just because you've fucked up doesn't mean you can't redeem yourself. Failures are not permanent. If you give yourself a chance, and people give you a chance, you can work on mending things that you think are broken. You can change, Destin. If you want to, you can, but you have to want to.
    You matter, Destin. What you want matters.

    I'm gonna be cliche for a second and quote Gandhi: "Be the change you want to see in the world."

    You aren't alone. We can't exactly help you directly, but we can offer you support. If you're willing to accept help, I can guarantee that there are plenty of people here willing to offer you as much support as possible. EC is a support forum, we want to help people. People want to help you. I want to help you. Just open yourself up to it. I think that you don't believe you're worthy of being helped, but you are man, you really are.
     
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  11. Lone Wolfe

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    See how many people love you?

    Here's my two cents...

    -> I want for my family, and more specifically my mom, to not hate me

    Sorry to break this to you, but you don't get to choose what your mom hates. Nor can you influence that. Mom gets 100% total credit for her likes/dislikes.


    -> I want to make her happy and satisfied...

    Only she can make herself happy. It's nice to want that for her, but it can't be one of your goals in life.


    -> I want my dad to value me as a person and care about me instead of his work

    I'm not sure you have any influence on how your dad feels either.


    -> I'm sure a big reason I practically kill myself in my science classes to be perfect in
    -> all of them is to get him to care more about me one day and be proud.

    I don't think the reason fits the effort you are making, but the effort is a positive thing in your life. I'd be willing to bet he's already proud of you, but may not have told you exactly that.


    -> I want to be a good example for and protect my newly discovered closeted bisexual/lesbian
    -> sister so she can feel safer and not have to be afraid of her feelings like I was/still am.

    Kinda a recurring theme - you may want to bring up with your therapist how you expect to be able to influence others' feelings.


    -> I want my boyfriend to have someone to be there for him always and who deserves his unconditional love and support that he's given this entire time despite me not treating him right by sleeping around

    So stop sleeping around, and show him some love.


    -> ..and I don't know why he hasn't dumped me by now...

    I know why. So do you.


    -> I have so much guilt just from literally existing

    I hear you. I wish I could either slap you across the forehead, or hug you - can't decide which.


    -> I need some reason to validate my own existence

    Lots of dark stuff inside.


    -> I want to not always be a failure...
    -> I failed...
    -> I failed...
    -> I'm in the process of failing...
    -> I failed...
    -> I fail every time...
    -> I fail by not feeling better...
    -> I even failed...

    Recurring theme here. Got it. You're actually pretty successful at failing, or at least blaming yourself.


    -> What I want doesn't matter. Nothing about me matters.

    I gotta disagree with you on this point. I thought you wanted to help sick people get better? That certainly matters. You've been remarkably strong to beat yourself up so much.


    -> I just want to minimize the harm my existence causes to other people at this point.

    I'm not sure you have done that much damage to others. Your psyche is in a dark place. I've been there before, and it's not fun down there. Are we tired of this shit yet? Throw it away, go to the one person who accepts you as you are - your BF. Cry on his shoulder. Your life goals are fine, don't abandon them. The only way to get out of a dark place is to turn around and walk out. Tell yourself you don't like it there. It takes too much energy to face your failures, and nothing good comes from it. Just walk away. Let others deal with their own lives.
     
  12. OGS

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    I remember having similar doubts when I came out--not as deep but similar nonetheless. For me it was the "realization" that I had been a better boyfriend when I dated women. Of course I hadn't actually but it sure seemed like it to me. The reason boiled down to the fact that it was all about them. I was the perfect little boyfriend automaton. I was the boyfriend they wanted. With guys it was totally different. Of course it was more genuine but the price of that was that I had all these needs and desires. And I wasn't going to just be the boyfriend they wanted I was stuck actually being me, and now they actually had to be some approximation of the boyfriend I wanted. The women I dated had it much easier...

    The fact of the matter is that the closet is a continuous act of suppressing almost all of your thoughts and desires in favor of who other people want you to be. And not just on romance: family, work, friends--we take a back seat everywhere. In the end it's a fundamentally selfish act--I will withdraw my entire personhood in the interest of survival. But that's not what it looks like from outside. What do we think of people who seemingly place the interests of everyone before themselves? Well, when it's genuine they're saints--they are perfect boyfriends, perfect children, perfect siblings, model employees and above all else they're nice. And frankly a lot of gay people seem to be exactly that before they come out. I certainly was. It's kind of easy when you've suppressed all your messy human feelings and desires. There's just so much less to get in the way.

    And then you come out and suddenly all those thoughts and feelings matter and you actually want stuff and need stuff and some of it you even want more than you want to please the people around you. And as genuine and human as that is, it's not very nice. And some people recoil from that and get stuck as a slightly more genuine version of the people pleaser they always were. And some embrace it and basically live hedonistic lives alone. But most people find a middle way. It's important that other people get what they want and need but its also important that I get what I need and want.

    You can do that if you really want. Part of it will be getting better friends but it may not start there. Part of the reason the better crowd is a better crowd is because they eschew the bad crowd. So you may have to start on you're own, and frankly this thread may be a good place to start. So early on in gay life a lot of us cope with negative thoughts by simply pretending they don't exist. By the time we come out we should know that doesn't work but it can be a hard habit to break. Good luck! The life you want is worth fighting for even if the fight is with yourself.
     
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  13. Tightrope

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    Destin, I don't see this underlying negative current you reference. Your posts are some of the best here, especially for someone your age. If anything, you might point out some realities that people don't want to look at. There is some sugar coating here from time to time and you don't contribute any sugar coated material. As someone said, some people you may know and who have calloused attitudes might bring you down. I've found that to be true with some of my current and past friends.

    As for coming out, there is no right or wrong answer. My last therapist was in a left leaning practice in a big city. I once found an article written by someone in that office, a gay person and a clinical psychologist, who stated that there was no "one size fits all" answer on whether someone should come out. It was very well written. I almost couldn't believe reading it and then thinking about the author. This mental health practice was affirming of any lifestyle but didn't push any one approach. Everyone's experiences on coming out or not coming out will differ in the short term, medium term, and long term. And, while some experiences can be painful or uncomfortable, they are all valid and probably experienced by others to same degree.

    When you post, I also get to look at your av and it often takes me far away to a much needed vacation.
     
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  14. Devil Dave

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    I'm gonna add something else - it's ok to be a bastard now and then. Being nice all the time is hard work. Not everybody deserves our kindness. There are people who will cross the line and put us down and try to take advantage of us, so we have to stand up and say no, its not ok for you to treat me like that.

    Heck, there are people who have heaped praise upon me for being nice and lovely and sweet, and yet they've tried to push me into being more dangerous and adventurous. These people aren't genuine. If they appreciated me when I was being quiet and boring and well behaved, then they should have accepted me that way, not try to bring out my edgy, hardcore slutty side. They tried to turn me into the kind of friend they wanted - they didn't bother trying to be the sort of friends I needed.

    I was once given some very good advice on this forum that I should be more demanding of what I want from people who are trying to be friendly with me. In order to be more demanding, you do have to switch off that nice guy attitude.
     
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  15. Biguyjosh

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    Destin, I don't think you're a bad person. I think you're actually a good guy. I appreciate your honest posts and comments. I wish I could snap my fingers and make you happy. *Snap* hope it works.
    Its not your fault your mom is the way she is. Its her fault that she can't accept you. Please realize that its perfectly fine to be gay and its other people's fault if they can't accept it.
     
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  16. azgayguy

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    I don't consider myself a bad person and I really don't care what others think about me. I have always been known for how good I treat people. But the more time I spend around gays the more I dislike them. It is their way or the highway, if you don't agree with them they push you out or worse. I thought we were a accepting group of people but we don't seem to be. Just the discrimination I still see towards male to female trans is terrible. There is a bath house that hired a woman but try to bring in a MTF and it is get that thing out of here.

    The more I think about being out as to who I am the more I think I don't want to be associated with gays and the way they act towards other people. I can see people get caught up in the hate they are spewing. One guy I used to play around with who was also a conservative came out and got involved in the community now he is a antifa democrat and hates my guts just because I am not of the same belief.

    So maybe if we do spend a lot of time with gay people we become the way they are. Talking to another man about my family who would not accept what I am he is saying fuck them, tell them to go to hell and a couple were worse. I
    find gays to be the most intolerant people on the face of the earth, that's my experience with the radical left democrat gays. If I can find one who is not a democrat they are more accepting and get along until others find out they are not like minded. It's like the gay community has to be shoving our lifestyle into everyone's faces and if they don't bow down to us it is a war with them.

    I would not wish this life on anyone. I was way happier when it was mostly a underground lifestyle and we had our private clubs.
     
  17. Totesgaybrah

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    I don’t think being gay is the issue here. It’s who you’re associating with. Just like everyone else, gays are all unique individuals.
    I think when we come out and are rejected by our family and friends it can tend to make us dive into an unhealthy lifestyle.

    If you come out and are made to feel like a mentally ill sinner faggot then it’s perfectly understandable that we lash out at people and have a negative attitude. It’s partially a defense mechanism. “I’ll hurt you before you can hurt me”.

    When we come out and are accepted by our friends and family I think we are much more likely to form healthy relationships. I’m closer with everyone now that I’ve been out for a couple years.

    I’m one of the lucky ones who have accepting people around me and I believe I have become a better person since I came out. I used to be so cynical and nihilistic.
    Life meant nothing to me.
    Now I can see a future that I actually want to have and be a part of.

    I absolutely do not understand why some gay men dislike trans women, or trans people in general.
    Some of y’all gays need to LEARN YOUR HISTORY!
     
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  18. azgayguy

    Regular Member

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    So do you think it could be the politics that has infected gays? I know many gay republicans and they do not act like those of the other parties do.
     
  19. Chierro

    Full Member

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    I think you're boiling people down way too much to simplicities. To say "All gay republicans act the same" or "All gay democrats act the same" are incredibly broad and false claims. It's simply not true.

    An individual is affected by politics as much as they want themselves to be. I align myself with liberal democrat beliefs, does that suddenly mean you hate me? Because I'm a gay democrat?

    Exactly like @Totesgaybrah said, it's all a matter of who you associate with. Everyone is unique. Just because you don't like the democrat LGBT individuals that you've been around does not mean that everyone is awful.
     
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  20. Totesgaybrah

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    Liberal or conservative doesn’t matter.
    Add radical to any group of people and they are going to seem totally nuts to any logical thinking person.
     
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