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I don't have trouble finding a relationship, I have trouble finding the kind of relationship I want

Discussion in 'Family, Friends, and Relationships' started by Lukky, Dec 23, 2019.

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  1. Chip

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    Those attributes/mindset would essentially be in the realm of narcissism or antisocial personality disorder.
     
    #21 Chip, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  2. Lukky

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    Ok. Now you're just being unfair. I'm not some kind of villain. I just want someone who I feel actually cares about me.
     
  3. Chip

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    It's not an issue of fair or unfair; it's a factual description of attributes. Mind you, single symptoms alone do not present a clinical picture, but no, emotionally healthy people do not describe relationships in one-sided ways as you are doing, and the descriptions you provide are indeed part of the symptom picture for those disorders.

    And the issue seems to be that you want someone not just who cares about you, but who fawns over you in an unhealthy way, while you show little to no interest in them, except to the extent it permits them to care about you. That's textbook narcissism.
     
  4. Lukky

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    Even if that's true, what's the problem with that? I don't care if it's healthy or not, my initial question was simple: where can I find it?
     
    #24 Lukky, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  5. Chip

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    Well, the more you post, the more you're displaying attributes consistent with antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder. So the answer is, you aren't going to find anyone who is remotely emotionally healthy who is going to have the slightest interest in being with someone like you are showing yourself to be. You are essentially interested in finding someone so that you can use them for your own pleasure, while providing little to nothing in return. And that is not something that anyone is going to want. People who are on the narcissism and antisocial personality spectrum don't have healthy relationships. They are essentially incapable of it. So this might be something you want to take a look at, if you hope to have a healthy relationship.

    Those two disorders are notoriously difficult to treat, in part because, as you're displaying, these people tend to see no problem with their behavior... which isn't terribly effective, because everyone else does. So if you want to have a healthy relationship, what that's going to mean is doing some serious work on yourself... getting into some pretty intensive therapy. If you are not interested in a healthy relationship, I have zero interest in helping you find someone you can manipulate and control for your own benefit. I hate to be harsh, but that's pretty much where it is.
     
    #25 Chip, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  6. Benway

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    I don't mean to sound inflammatory or anything, but there was a famous gay man who sought out a partner like the one the original poster seems to be desirous of. You may have heard of him. His name was Jeffrey Dahmer. Dahmer sought the ultimate submissive partner, someone who would love him without ever talking back to him and be completely complacent in anything he wanted to do. In a severely misguided step towards achieving this, Dahmer would lure young men to his apartment, drug them with a powerful sedative and attempt to turn them into "zombies" with improvised brain surgery. The victims he did this "surgery" to always died. Like I said, I'm not trying to sound inflammatory, but that's what reading this thread reminded me of. There's no such thing as a one-sided relationship, which is largely why I've stayed out of relationships myself. I'm more of a hook-up/friends with benefits guy anyway.
     
    #26 Benway, Jan 28, 2020
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  7. Lukky

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    That's simply not true. People say that just to sound more respectable. People are attracted to narcissistic traits, mainly when the narcissist in question is pretty. They fall head over heels for you. That's why I always invest thousands of money in my appearance and also enjoy using make-up. I asked this question because my transformation is still not finished, so when it does, I will want to know where to look for among the hundreds who will like my social media pictures.
     
  8. Lukky

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    Don't you realize that you're actually more vulnerable to these kinds of people in hook-ups than in relationships? lol.
     
  9. Chip

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    Interesting how you initially denied the comments about narcissism and antisocial personality disorder, but now you're embracing them.

    So... there's an enormous difference between people liking someone's pictures on social media and liking the person. This is one of the reasons why people who are unusually attractive and are obsessive about their appearance usually have difficulty sustaining healthy relationships or friendships: People find them attractive physically, but their insecurities drive people away. Someone can look at a pic and say "I find that person attractive" and then meet them and go "Ugh! Beauty is only skin deep, and that's the most shallow, undesirable person I've ever run into". And if you do find someone who likes you only for your looks and will put up with your self-centered personality, as soon as the looks fade (or the person gets healthier emotionally), they're going to split and find someone that's a better match.

    Likewise, someone who is physically attractive but is a narcissist or sociopath might pique someone's interest initially, but the relationship won't go anywhere (if the other person is reasonably emotionally healthy) because healthy people have no interest in being in a relationshpi with a self-absorbed asshole, and "self-absorbed asshole" and "narcissist" are pretty much in the same category.

    So again, as I said above, the best route for someone with those attributes is to seek therapy and get help. But unfortunately, it is very rare for narcissists or sociopaths to go to therapy, because the very self-absorbed nature of the disorder makes it near impossible to understand that they need help.
     
  10. Lukky

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    I'm not embracing them, I'm simply not denying them, because I've tried to deny but you won't listen, it's almost as if you wanted me to have some kind of disorder. I don't. Sometimes, people just see the World differently from you. That doesn't mean they have a disorder. I think some people here jump to conclusions way too fast.

    Everyone likes people for their appearance. If not only for their appearance, at least it is the most important factor. Just compare how easy it is for beautiful people to find dates in comparison to ugly or average people, how easy it is to find friends (with benefits or not), how easy it is to find high-paying jobs, how easy it is to get away with things, etc. I don't need to have a personality, I need to have money and looks.
     
  11. Chip

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    What you don't seem to realize is that every. single. post. you make is providing further evidence to support the idea that your traits are consistent with either narcissism or APD.

    BTW, to be clear, I'm not diagnosing either of those, as it would not be appropriate nor possible to accurately do so on the basis of some posts. However, each post you make does further reinforce the common traits and behaviors consistent with one or both of those diagnoses. Also, this isn't just "people seeing the world differently".

    I wish you the best, and maybe after a couple dozen failed relationships, you'll figure out that you need to pay some attention to this. The problem is, NPD and APD are extremely difficult to treat to begin with, and *very* difficult for someone over 25. So the clock is ticking. Hopefully you'll figure out that you need help while it's still possible for someone to effectively help you.
     
  12. Destin

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    You really don't see the narcissism? Literally every word of your post quoted above is the definition of narcissism.

    I don't deny that yes it's very easy to find dates and jobs as a good looking person, but they're almost never good quality ones. The person dating you treats you like a painting they just stare at with no interest in you as a person whatsoever, and the jobs hire you, once again, as something to be stared at or used as a figurehead/mouthpiece with their clients, not as a real employee.

    I never say stuff like this, and don't like people who do, but since you won't believe me without it.... I can 100% guarantee you money and looks will not make you happy. Although I don't see it in myself personally, most of my life people have insisted I'm really good looking and I was paid to be a teen male model in high school (don't do that btw, models are treated like dirt). I'm also from an extraordinarily wealthy family, like set $500,000 on fire and not care at all type of wealthy, and while I definitely had a lot of unique experiences, I was never happy as a kid. I tricked myself into thinking I was, but I was not. I was actually super self-conscious and made up for it with unhealthy habits and hardcore partying with mostly terrible people that honestly I'm quite surprised didn't kill me, because more than a few people I knew did die from it.

    It. Will. Not. Make. You. Happy.
     
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  13. Lukky

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    You don't like people who say that because deep in your heart you know it's not true. If you really are/were all that which you said you are/were (rich, a teen male model, a hardcore partyier, etc.), you pretty much had the life of the dreams of anyone. You can't say you weren't happy but didn't know. Yes, you were and knew it. You are probably just too ashamed of your past for moral/cultural reasons, but you wouldn't trade the life that you had for anything else. So, yes, it will make me happy.
     
  14. Chip

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    I don't often put things so bluntly, but you are so completely full of shit (or ignorant, or self-absorbed, or a troll, or some combination; not sure which) with what you've said here that it defies comprehension.

    Though I can't speak for Destin, I have known a number of folks in his position, and all have echoed the same sentiments. The only folks who don't are those who, like you, have no capacity for human connection and empathy.

    This 'life of dreams" is, more often than not, a prison with invisible walls (from many sources), parents whose love is conditional and who often care more about others' perceptions than they do about their own kids, and the harm from growing up in these environments frequently outweighs the positives.

    If you've actually read Destin's posts, you'd see that, though you may be incapable of understanding it. The incidence of addiction, severe mental health issues, depression, suicide, aberrant behavior and the like among the affluent is phenomenally high. Many are very lonely, for the reasons Destin describes. They may be surrounded by "friends" and still be lonely, as folks view them as either artwork or a source of free stuff. It's very superficial and very sad.

    You may think you want it... and you will be very sadly disappointed.
     
    #34 Chip, Feb 1, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  15. Chiroptera

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    I agree with Chip and Destin.

    People are different. Some may enjoy a life like that (rich, a teen male model, a hardcore partyier, in your own words), although there are many who are in that life in order to bury problematic feelings (the prison Chip mentioned).

    To me, a life like that would be like hell, honestly. I hate parties and I have no interest in being around people who only like my body, instead of who I really am. Of course appearence matters, but it is far from the single and most important thing in a relationship (including non-romantic relationships, like friendships).

    I'm usually quite bored by the appearence of most people in the media - many look like artificial dolls and not real people. And, sure, of course I want a boyfriend/girlfriend whom I feel physically attracted to. However, I would never have a relationship (and probably not even a casual relationship) with someone who is dumb as a door and has no interests in common with me, even if that person has a "perfect" (what is perfect anyway?) body. I prefer someone who is attractive enough to me but, mostly importantly, knows how to maintain a conversation about the topics I find interesting.

    In any way, you don't sound like you are interested in thinking and reflecting upon the advice that has been provided. That's your choice but, you came here looking for advice and you got it. If you prefer to ignore everything and argue, then I wonder why you have asked for advice in the first place. You won't find good advice if you are only willing to accept what you want to hear, instead of what you need to hear.
     
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  16. Lukky

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    I definitely would.

    No, you aren't. You are in denial. Probably because you want to have that but can't.

    Because the "advice" here mostly consists of amateur "psychologists" trying to diagnose me with mental disorders which I don't have (Although Chip and Destin and some others might have said some interesting things sometimes, most of what was said here isn't useful), instead of answering to my initial question. In fact, I considered this thread ended long ago, but people kept answering it with personal attacks, so I had to answer them.
     
  17. Lukky

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    I suffer with almost everything you listed, except addiction (although some people could theoretically say that I'm addicted to the internet or aesthetic procedures) and I'm not even close to having that amazing life, so I don't think it would affect me for the worse. Quite the oposite, it would make me feel better, because it would fulfill my life with lots of new and interesting people. I would never feel rejected or isolated again.

    Life is sad and all people are superficial, so what's the point?
     
  18. Destin

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    I used to think the same thing. Then after meeting genuinely good people I realized life is only sad when you're around sad people. All it takes is being around happy people who are honestly just trying to have fun and be themselves to automatically make you feel like twice as good.

    I'm not going to deny that the partying I mentioned was fun, of course it was, I still like and go to parties sometimes. The difference is "going to parties" versus "being a partier." There's a HUGE difference that only becomes clear when you've become "the partier" without realizing it. For newcomers yeah it's super fun because you just see the actual party itself. Those of us who have been in that game for quite a long time see the problems of everyone at the party too. It's the same people, always, like me who found every single party they physically could go to.

    I have so many bad party stories my dude, so many. Yeah I have good stories too, but the good does not outweigh the bad.

    "that fun time we went drunkenly surfing" does not outweigh "the time that random girl got beat into bloody puddle by her coked up 20 year old boyfriend who then had sex with his 13 year old side-girlfriend ON TOP OF the girl laying in her own blood, who we eventually called an ambulance for and were told by the EMT's she'd have choked on her own blood and died if we called 10 minutes later" (both are true stories, which do you think we remembered more?)

    Or how about that time my best party friends left me severely, life-threateningly drunk literally laying in my own vomit and crying in the middle of the street in the ghetto ON MY BIRTHDAY and when I confronted them about it the next day was told and I quote "Bruh, I'm not your dad, take care of yourself pussy" (I continued partying with them for a few more years anyway, and far worse things happened to all of us at some point or another).
     
    #38 Destin, Feb 2, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  19. Chip

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    That's living in a fantasy land, and is a perfect textbook description of what Brené Brown calls "hustling for your worthiness": the idea that if you get _____________, you'll be happy. The problem is, the happiness doesn't come from getting whatever it is you think you want.

    You have to be happy and love and believe in yourself first. Otherwise, what happens is, when you start to get whatever you want (money, looks, fame, the 'unconditionally loving boyfriend'), all you do is move the goalposts... because the emptiness is not from the external things you are seeking, it is inside. But I don't expect you to understand or accept that, because you're too arrogant and self-absorbed to consider the possibility. If you decide you want to explore this, check out Brené's three TED talks, "The Power of Vulnerability", "The Price of Invulnerability" and "Listening to Shame".

    Once again, you're completely full of shit. Except this time, I'm not going to apologize for it. You aren't in anyone else's mind, and you have no idea what they are thinking. Additionally, you pretty obviously have a severe personality issue that may or may not meet the clinical definition of a personality disorder, and if it does, you have a very limited window to solve it (based on your age) before it will become infinitely more difficult to solve. But... you're utterly in denial of this (and projecting your denial onto others), so it's unlikely you'll get anywhere.

    Especially given the other issues you've described, you're unlikely to end up with a happy life if you don't get help. You've now got several different folks, all with different life experiences, backgrounds, and levels of clinical training and experience, all telling you the same thing. And you're ignoring it.

    That's your choice. But in doing so, most likely you'll end up really unhappy, and part of the reason people keep engaging is that they genuinely don't want to see you spend the rest of your life unhappy.

    However, since at this point, it's just you putting up resistance to the input you're getting, and since you consider the subject finished, it's time to close the thread.
     
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