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"I don't hate gay people, I just don't approve of their lifestyles."

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by SubZero, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Lipstick Leuger

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    I just look at assholes like this and say "good thing I don't give a flying fat rats ass about your approval".
     
  2. Steele

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    The difference between homosexuality and the things you list is that no one chooses to be gay, but people do make a conscious choice to partake in the activities you mention. And furthermore, straight people won't have to deal with hatred or disgust directed at them because of their sexual orientation, so why are non-straight people the exception?

    Also, these people's attitudes and views of homosexuality will leak into their everyday lives and potentially even the things they create, and that just bombards everyone with the messages that gays are inferior, gays are sinners, gays are deviant and disgusting, etc. And that's what causes so many LGBT individuals to grow up with so much shame and disgust in themselves that they become suicidal, so I would argue that the people who, as you say, aren't making an effort to stand in the way of other people's happiness are, in fact, standing in the way of other people's happiness, regardless of whether they intend it or not. And as someone who was feeling suicidal because of all the shame and disgust I felt in myself because of my sexual orientation, I absolutely refuse to just sit back and tolerate any of that.

    And as far as the things you mention go...as long as the activities the people are participating in don't harm anyone around them and everyone is participating in those activities in safe and responsible ways (like not smoking marijuana right before they start driving), I don't have a problem with it, and frankly, I'm not entirely convinced that anyone else should either. Sure, I don't get tattoos or smoke pot because I don't think they're worth the risk factors, but that doesn't mean I think people who do are making the "wrong" choice, just a different choice than I would make, the same way I'd choose pineapple over oranges while someone else might choose oranges over pineapple.
     
  3. DrinkBudweiser

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    There's a difference between someone being hateful and showing disgust towards gays and just plainly stating that they don't support it. I see where you're coming from, we just have contrasting viewpoints. If I was having a conversation with a friend and they told me that they love me but don't support homosexual marriage because it's against their religion, I have absolutely no reason to be upset. Simply because that's their personal belief and I respect that. Now, if they said something more along the lines of gays being disgusting and how they couldn't believe I partake in such filth... that's crossing the line entirely. Then again, unless you blatantly come up to me blasting off gay hatred, I'm hard to offend. I just choose to tune people out because it's my life and I'll do whatever I want.

    On the other hand...
    Millions of people are against tattoos, interracial marriage, smoking pot, etc. These people are choosing to go against traditional society to do what makes them happy. Same with open gays, they are CHOOSING to go against traditional society to do what makes them happy. Is it fair that the LGBT community has to deal with this and straights don't? No. It's completely unfair and it fucking sucks. But when you go against the "traditional" way of living, some people just have negative opinions on it.

    That's why I say as long as someone respectfully disagrees, I don't see an issue. The world is way too diverse for everyone to see eye-to-eye. It'll never happen. You can't be upset because 1 in every 10 people you come across don't agree with your way of life. You'll make yourself miserable.
     
  4. biguy8

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    Anyone who says "gay lifestyle" is ignorant. Replace gay with straight, "I don't hate straight people, but I don't agree with the straight lifestyle. I can't stand the thought of a man and a woman having sex. Ewww. And why do you have to flaunt your sexuality in front of me by holding hands? Breed in bed not in public."

    I don't like what the lifestyle thing implies. So someone who is queer and has never had sex at 25 is somehow worse than a hooker who is 20 and slept with 200 men? This phrase of "gay lifestyle" ASSumes that LGBT people have been in orgies, done drugs, had anonymous sex, and have HIV. There are still people who believe this crap. I have had 2 sexual partners since I entered puberty 20 years ago. And somehow I am the one who is a slut? Fuck that.

    My dad says that it is not a sin to have same sex attraction but acting on it is. Dad: "Oh, I don't hate LGBT people, but I will look at people based on their actions. My problem is the gay agenda. They are going to force churches to perform gay weddings. Do you know what they did in New York during Act Up? They stormed into churches in the middle of their services and assaulted priests twice. Do you support this?" Me:"Well, I don't know the context of that news story, so I can't speak about it. But do you know the purpose of Act Up as a whole? They tried to help stop the spread of AIDS. They had every reason to get mad at the NY mayor because he refused to help."

    People who are bigots will never realize that they are bigots. Ignorance is bliss. They think that as long as they aren't supporting killing gays that they can protest against gay rights and "stand up for family values."

    The bottomline is LGBT people just want to be left alone.
     
  5. Starwind78

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    To my shame, I used to say things like this when I was a Christian without flinching.

    Oh the irony, right?

    Since I've been on both sides of this, I think I can provide some glimpse into the mindset behind these statements. For the record, I am an atheist now.

    While the "love the sinner, hate the sin" schtick is often used to backpedal and avoid judgment from others, it is also genuinely used to lessen the hurt. Back in the day, I pitied the LGBT community. I saw homosexuality as akin to an addiction, with some people much more susceptible to it than others and as an extremely difficult to break away from. I recognized that homosexuality directly harmed no one and, if pressed, would perhaps have admitted that it was a rather arbitrary mandate from God to encourage marriage & reproduction or some nonsense. I also did not believe that homosexuality (or any one sin) guaranteed eternal damnation in Hell because I prioritized accepting Christ over avoiding sin.

    Long story short, I didn't think gay people were "evil" and honestly did not want to hurt their feelings, so I leaned on this tired phrase.

    Now, while someone who says such things is extremely unlikely to change their mind in one conversation - especially in public (where they'll prefer to stand their ground) - I think it can be worth it to engage them as best as one can.

    It was the slow erosion of my beliefs over many years that led to my eventual deconversion. It''s replacing the anti-gay mantra the person undoubtedly hears at home with other arguments to ponder.

    One that stuck out in my mind as compelling when I was still on the fence about the morality of LGBT was that, given the widespread discrimination and sanctions LGBT folks face, why would anyone choose it?
     
  6. wannahavechange

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    My sister tells me this all the time.
    I still love you but you're making a terrible "choice"
    Then she says I don't care who you bring home just make sure it's not a huge screaming girly gay guy.. and I was like wtf...
    Idk, one of these days I'll tell her off, just right now isn't the right time.
     
  7. Batman

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    They have the right to their opinion. I say the same thing about cat people.
     
  8. iiimee

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    I really like this statement, however most people who actually say they just "disapprove" end up bringing it up, and trying to change you every second... in a regular relationship, this should not be tolerated. For example, I came out as trans- I told people, some approve, some don't, but nobody except this one chick kept bothering me. She'd do it secretly ofc, like at first she said she disapproved. I said that was fine. Then later she messaged me a long thing on how transgender isn't real, blah blah blah. I got annoyed and told her I didn't ask for her opinion or acceptance, so if she isn't okay with it, she doesn't need to comment, but she cannot use female pronouns, though I always welcomed her to use neutral ones. She then went unto one of my posts and said a long rant, then ended it with "God bless you girls!" (referring to my sister and me). This post wasn't even somewhat related to my sister or even me, so I basically told her off... I have no regrets doing this, especially since she acts all holy, saying statements like "Hate the sinner, love the sin" but then keeps trying to remind me of my "sins". This is when it crosses a line...
     
  9. Purp

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    Love u so much!!!! :slight_smile: you're not alone!
     
  10. Fred89

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    I've been left out. Exactly what is the "gay lifestyle"?
     
  11. iiimee

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    Nothing. It doesn't exist, unless you're referring to going to gay bars every night... I guess you could call that a gay lifestyle. :lol: People like to think it's a choice, or have been brainwashed into thinking that, so they call it stuff like that.
     
  12. Kinyayo

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    I got to the point where I just accept the belief that people have right to not approve who I am, same as I have a right not to approve what they are. If people say that they hate my gayness and call it sinful, I usually don't get annoyed or mad. If I really want to, I just voice my opinion because at least it's based on some science behind it rather than something completely made up. Well, as long as these people don't attack me physically, chase me or whatever harmful they can do!
     
  13. BelleFromHell

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    Amen to that. Love how you capitalized the ASS in ASSume. *claps*

    My lesbianism is not a "lifestyle". The kind of music I listen to? That's a lifestyle. My interests in nerdy things like anime and linguistics? That's another lifestyle. Those are all things I choose. If all those things magically changed, I'd still be just as gay I before. Being gay is about the same as me being 5'8" and having brown hair and brown eyes. It's not something I get to decide, and it really doesn't (and shouldn't) make me much different than anyone else. I'm still capable of feeling the same love a straight woman feels for a guy. The only difference is that it's towards a girl.

    My dad is just like that. I hated him. He is a Christian who thought I shouldn't "force my lifestyle" on anyone. This is from a guy who has made out with several of his girlfriends in public on multiple occasions, and has had so many girlfriends since I turned 7 alone that he's probably lost count of how many women he's sleep with. Frankly, I think his God would be less judgy of me than him. Sure, I've done some bad things before and I'm not perfect, but I'm nowhere near the level of asshole he's on.

    If someone asks me about boys and tell them that I'm a lesbian, that somehow makes me some lesbian pervert who tries to force my lifestyle on straight people and make them gay.

    I've been around mostly straight people all my life and that didn't turn me straight. A straight person being around gay people will not magically turn gay. If they do, they weren't really straight to begin with.

    As for the slut stereotype, I have the sex life of a nun. I'm the only 18+ year old I know who has never done anything sexual outside of masturbation, and EVERYONE does that. My straight friends and family members are certainly getting a lot more ass than I'd ever care to get. I don't want to sleep with anyone until I know that she's the right one. The idea of having lots of sex partners makes me feel uncomfortable.

    The AIDS stereotype is also bullshit. Heterosexuals can also get it. Almost anyone can get it, regardless of what kind of sex you're having. If you have unprotected sex with someone with HIV, regardless of what parts you both have, you can get it. People can get it non-sexually as well through drugs, contaminated blood, or having a parent with HIV. That's why research and awareness are so important. It affects everyone; not just us.
     
  14. biguy8

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    I self-loathed for years, so I can relate. For me though, coming out has not made me deconvert from Christianity. If anything, it made the whole social justice thing in the New Testament real to me. I understood the peacemaker principle when I looked around at all the hate out there after hearing story after story.

    Eating like a pig at the church potluck and outside of that is a lifestyle. And what about gluttony being a sin? Or the love of money? Discriminating against people is a poor lifestyle and completely unChristlike.

    OMG, I don't want to catch teh gays. Make like Justin Timberlake and cry me a river.
     
  15. happydavid

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    My friend at church doesn't approve or disapprove .It's a bit confusing
     
  16. Starwind78

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    I deconverted first. Coming out to myself did not end my religion. I was still firmly closeted at the time of deconversion. Rather, not having any religious concerns about homosexuality freed me to consider thoughts I had buried.
     
  17. Tsumiguchi

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    It's not a contradictory position. You can love someone and disapprove of their relationships. Do you think every relationship choice your friends make is good and healthy and moral? I know people in my love that really do love me unconditionally but think that it would be immoral and harmful for me to date someone of the same sex. And let's not forget that marriage did not used to be about love - it was about family and reproduction, not passion. It may not be right, but it's not gibberish either.

    As for gay marriage - they're right. We do have equal rights in the sense that everyone can marry someone of the opposite sex. We are looking for more rights - for everyone - to be able to marry who they want regardless of gender.

    I think that drawing black-and-white, absolutist lines is ultimately harmful. If you cut yourself off from everyone who doesn't think how you act on your desires is okay, and demonize them, then you're choosing a world where LGBT rights aren't really any more respected and alienating people from one another. If someone is trying to convince you to be a vegan, are you going to respond better if they call you a murderer and cut you off than if they explain their reasoning without judging you for disagreeing? Maybe people haven't been particularly good at doing that for us, but if our commitment is to principle and not to spite, returning the condemnation is not the ideal route. If we want people to understand where we're coming from and who we are, we need to show that we understand that sexuality issues can be uncomfortable and difficult and that we're willing to meet them where they are. I mean, most of us surely struggled with similar feelings while coming to terms with ourselves. Is it fair to punish people or say they're stupid and evil - and for struggling with our feelings in a similar way that we did?
     
  18. Starwind78

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    This is where I am on this. I came from a conservative area. Many good and thoughtful people I know are hopelessly ignorant about LGBT issues, but may be able to change. I obviously did.
     
  19. Open Arms

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    Often, it's due to ignorance, not just of gay people, but also of the Bible's teachings on the subject. There are so many misconceptions about gays in the Church which are just now being addressed and, in some cases, corrected. The changes are happening slowly but surely.
    Exodus has folded and some church leaders are now coming out in favour of gay marriage. The tide is just starting to turn.

    I believe God is upsetting the apple cart in churches, so to speak. I have no idea what took Him so long. Maybe people weren't ready to accept the truth until now?
     
  20. Starwind78

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    Thank you!

    Btw, you have an awesome signature.