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I don't get myself :(

Discussion in 'Anonymous Gender Identity and Expression' started by Anonymous, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. Anonymous

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    I'm FtM, I only found that out a few months ago but even as a kid things felt wrong but I just didn't have a word for it. I'm not a troll I'm only saying that because I think it sounds like I am, maybe not but I don't know. I don't really understand how it works though. I don't understand how because I get this intense longing to be male, that therefore makes me male. I just don't understand how a male person could be in a female body and why that person had to be me. Everyone always told me when I was young that being trans was rare and now I just think that I've convinced myself that I'm trans but I'm really cis? But I've had dysphoria since I was a kid so I guess that's not true. Also there were these TERFs and they didn't say it to me but they said something like 'a mutilated [assigned gender] body doesn't make a [gender you identify with] body' and I think that's a horrible thing to say but...I feel like hormones and surgery won't give me the body I want because all I wanted was to be born as a cis male and that will never happen and maybe I'll always just see myself as a person who wants to be male but can't. People say that there are benefits to being trans but I'd trade them away if I could have been born male. I really just feel like I have some mental illness or maybe I should try harder to like being female or something. Well, we had this guest come to talk to us about puberty and stuff at school and he said that we're born male or female and there's nothing we can do to change that, we just have to accept it. That hurt my feelings but it started to make me think that maybe I should try harder to be cis which is pointless because I've already tried to be cis. I feel like a trans person shouldn't say these things but it's just how I feel and I want to feel better about myself but I don't know how. Can somebody explain how someone being born trans happens? How do I feel better about not being able to have a cis male body? Sorry for the depressing post :frowning2:
     
  2. Matto_Corvo

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    From my understanding being born trans happens in the womb due to parental hormones. Sex hormones (estrogen and testosterone) effect almost everything when developing. So at one point fetus you could of been exposed to to much T, resulting in the brain developing more masculine even though the chromosomes say female.

    As well, that person is wrong. People are not simple born just female or just male. That completely erases all the intersex people born. Intersex people often have fentially that is to ambiguous to determine if male or female thus parents/doctors surgically "correct the problem" while kid is a baby. There are also intersex people who have XYY, YXY, YYX, etc chromosomes. There are those whose chromosomes say male but might have an immunity to testosterone and thus appear genetically female down to have a vagina, and most identify as female.

    Through out history there are cultures that have multiple genders other than the binary ones we know.

    What you are feeling is common of trans people who are just starting to accept themselves.

    -PS a trans person listening to TERFs is never a good idea. I did when I was younger and spent years repressing the fact that I was trans male. Sorry for not answering everything, I'm in a rush due to dying phone xD but I wanted to at least give you some sort of answer.
     
  3. baconpox

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    A person can have the brain of the opposite sex they were born as because there are differences in male and female brains, and controversially brain maps. A brain map is exactly what it sounds like, how you think of/feel your body should be regardless of that's how it is actually--which causes dysphoria. Along with dysphoria, trans people often have brain structures correlating to their preferred gender, for example: amount of white matter and hypothalamus size. Furthermore, trans women who have had lower surgery are less likely to have a phantom penis sensation, and a lot of pre-op trans men also have that.

    As for causes, the most common theory is testosterone exposure in the womb (or lack of thereof; extra exposure to estrogen would not have the same effect on a natal male), a larger androgen receptor, or variant genotypes in CYP17 (which acts on progesterone). But it's not limited to transgender people, there are also different brain structures in gay and straight people also have slightly different brain structures. We don't know the cause, but it's certainly backed up scientifically--and that guy who spoke at your school was clearly uneducated; dysphoria is a legitimate medical condition.

    Also anyone who says that "mutilating yourself doesn't make you a different gender" stuff is usually disregarding scientific proof of transgender people to promote their agenda. Don't let them feel bad about yourself.


    Sources: GENDER IDENTITY AND PHANTOM GENITALIA - SFGate (brain map)

    A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. - PubMed - NCBI (brain structure)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/ (genotypes)
     
    #3 baconpox, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  4. baconpox

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    Intersex people can either be classified into male or female, though. Humans are sexually dimorphic (inseminators & gestators). If a female is born without a uterus, but has female genitalia she can be classified as female. If she has ambigious genitalia, she can still be classified by her reproductive systems or which puberty she goes through. It's whichever that person has more characteristics of (including only hormones, chromosomes, genitalia, and gametes).

    Also different cultural genders only really exist because they were unaware of gay people or transgender people.
     
  5. Matto_Corvo

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    See, this goes against a lot of what I've been told on this site and others.

    I'm not sure how to respond to it because in a way you are saying that a person HAS to be either male or female, when you point out that intersex be classed into one of the two binaries. Which isn't always true.
     
  6. baconpox

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    I don't want to get too off topic on this thread, but how can every intersex person not be classified into male or female? They all are at birth.
     
  7. rgvbobcat

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    You are a great person, and if you feel male than that's what you are, don't listen to anyone that tells you how you should be. I spent my whole life denying both my sexuality and gender identity, and that's the path to sickness. embrace and love who you are.

    As Barney say's "you are special"
     
  8. InfinityonHigh

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    Just something to consider: In this modern day and age, you can live without the reproductive organs you were born with. However, you can't survive a second without your brain. I can argue that every single person's conscience basically is their brain.
    Therefore: gender in your brain > gender assigned because of external reproductive organs
     
  9. InfinityonHigh

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    I think what baconpox means is that no matter what intersex condition someone might have, they still have to assign a binary gender to them. Every baby needs to have either F or M on their birth certificate. Their bodies don't fit into the binary, but sadly there's no commonplace alternative.
     
  10. Matto_Corvo

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    Yes, I figure that out after my cold medicine kicked in.

    I was just trying to say that intersex/transgender people are proof that people won't always fit into male and female boxes. But Bacon is correct that everyone gets shoved into a binary box at birth.
     
  11. karmatoast

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    I feel similar. I was born male, but I strongly identify with being female. I don't think I'm trans because I don't feel legitimately female; like if someone looked at my brain, they wouldn't necessarily see a woman. However, I've always felt that I WANTED to be female. They just seem to be able to express things the way I want to express things. I also think my sexuality is VERY similar to that of a typical female. I just feel dull and confined in a male body. People treat me as male and expect me to be a typical male. I feel like the real me is hidden and I have to work harder for people to understand who I really am. So what is there to do about it? Well, it's not necessarily easy, but you have to shove aside who you OUGHT to be and just be YOU. For example, just start allowing yourself to be a man. Wear the clothing, adopt the mannerisms, etc... What's stopping you from being you? Nothing. So you were AFAB (A female at birth). That doesn't mean that you can't just be who you know you are inside. For me, I've found that I'm the only person holding me back. I've started changing my wardrobe, exercising and eating better. I want to start wearing nylons and skirts with cute boots to work. I paint my nails and sometimes wear makeup. I haven't come out (people just think I'm being trendy), but I'm getting laser hair removal because I want my outfits to clash less with my face before I go even further into feminine territory :wink: How do you want to express yourself? Why not just do it? It also may help a lot to find other gender varying people. Start building your support system. Emotional support is very important. Besides, life shouldn't be about surviving. It should be about thriving as YOU. So enjoy life and be you.
     
  12. Anonymous

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    Thank you everyone for your replies :slight_smile: I sort of understand myself better but the only thing that I'm having trouble understanding is, if I was exposed to more testosterone in the womb then wouldn't I have been born intersex? I'm 99% sure that my chromosomes are XX, does this mean that I would have had to have been exposed to testosterone very early like before my body developed very much? My other question was, is this just an idea or has it been proven as true? Thank you again :slight_smile:
     
  13. InfinityonHigh

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    From what I've heard, the time period where the brain gets the sex hormones and the reproductive organs get the sex hormones is different.
     
  14. Matto_Corvo

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  15. baconpox

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    Sex is determined by sperm, not hormones.
     
  16. InfinityonHigh

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    Yes and no. A person's chromosomal sex is determined by sperm, but the outward appearance of that person's reproductive organs is ultimately determined by sex hormones. Chromosomes order which hormones there should be.

    For example, people with CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, self explanatory name) have XY chromosomes but are almost always assigned female and identify as such (although there are exceptions).

    People with XX chromosomes that also have CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia, where their bodies don't make enough cortisol and makes more testosterone instead) are more varied in terms of assigned sex and gender identity, some of them could be assigned male and identify as such and not find out about their condition until much later on (I've read news articles about this), some are assigned female and content with that, and some's gender identity differs from that of which they were assigned. This often depends on the severity of the condition. The same chromosomes can have very different results.

    Though in the end, this all depends on how you define "sex".
     
  17. baconpox

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    CAIS affects 2-5 people with XY chromosomes out of every 100,000 and it's not caused by extra exposure to testosterone (or lack of thereof). They can also have normal sex characteristics if it's mild enough--or they can be infertile and males with it often develop breasts at puberty, but they're still male. CAH is also pretty rare (fewer than 200,000 U.S. cases annually) and though it might cause early puberty or make females more masculine, it doesn't change sex. It is also caused by genetics and not hormone exposure in the womb.
     
    #17 baconpox, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  18. Matto_Corvo

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    I believe that Bacon is saying sex is your anatomy, those parts of our bodies that people look at when labeling us at birth.

    Gender is how our brain identifies.

    And I don't think Infinity is saying is saying sex hormones caused those conditions. Only pointing out that by their choromsones people with CAIS are male, they also have undescended testicles but that isn't usually discovered infill surgery or x-rays. In all appearances they are born appearing female and usually identify as such. Somewhere in their genes is q code that makes them insensitive to androgen, as a result T in the womb doesn't have the same effect as it would on other males.
    There was actually an episode of House featuring a person with this disorder, and as you can tell by the end of the episode that person identified 100% as male and was upset that everyone was trying to tell her that she was male.
     
  19. Hexagon

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    I'm going to argue strongly against identifying a cause of being trans, as others have, particularly when the argument is for brain differences. Apart from anything else, new research has come out suggesting there aren't such things as a 'male' and 'female' brain. But all that argument leads to is excluding some people while allowing those deemed 'trans enough' by an abusive medical community to transition. I've seen the damage done to people close to me for being excluded from trans areas, and prevented access to treatment, because of such gatekeeping attempts. I understand the urge to have some medical reason to point to when experiencing transphobia, but it's a symptom of a flawed and oppressive society.

    Sorry. But it needs to be said. The point of which is to say, maybe you being trans is caused by hormones in the womb. Maybe not. The cause doesn't matter. Causes medicalise and dehumanise a part of you.

    So onto sex and gender. You'll often hear gender described as a social construct. I'd say this isn't precisely correct, but some parts of it certainly are. What is true is that the gender binary is a social construct. That is, that there are only two genders, with their associated genitals, roles and behaviours. Anyone found guilty of violating this, be it by being transgender, by behaving more masculine or more feminine than society expects, by wearing the 'wrong' clothes, or by rejecting labels of either male or female (non-binary people) are treated harshly. Why do people break the gender binary? Why do you feel male when you were assigned female at birth? I don't know, and the only way you'll find peace is accepting it as an inalienable part of yourself. That takes time, but you can get there.

    TERFs only believe in sex, and thus argue that there is no reason to transition, believing that sex is either male or female. However, a lot of their argument is based on its binary nature, and that is demonstrably false. Intersex people exist. Not everyone with XX chromosomes has a vagina or a uterus or ovaries or estrogen, and not everyone with XY chromosomes has a penis and testicles and testosterone and so on. And not everyone has XX or XY chromosomes. TERFs, aside from the harm they do to transgender people, deny intersex people a place in society, whose existence they ignore, but can't deny. So if sex isn't binary, what is male and what is female? Well, a male body belongs to a man. Aka you. It doesn't matter how you present, how well you pass, or how much estrogen you have. If you feel like a man, then you are.

    I know that doesn't give you an answer you want. It doesn't tell you why you feel this way, and it doesn't make it go away. But I promise it will with time. It does for everyone. This is just self doubt, because if there's one thing humans are good at, its sabotaging our own happiness. You aren't cis. Cis people don't have these thoughts. Why on earth would you have convinced yourself that you're trans when you aren't, after all? It just isn't something that happens without cause. As for feeling like a cis man rather than a trans one, sorry. Nothing anyone can do about that. This is the best you're going to get, but I promise you that you will one day feel comfortable as a man, and that life can still be good. It does take time, though. What did it for me was hormones and surgery on the medical side, and time, love, openness, and radical gender politics. In that self-acceptance only truly came when I realised that it wasn't just me that was the problem, that society's concept of gender was flawed, and that trying to take my place in it was part of what was hurting me.
     
  20. InfinityonHigh

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    I was trying to argue the technicalities of "sex" but now that I think about it I don't think that's necessary. I don't want to go further in with that debate so you might as well ignore what I said.