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How is it that somebody using he/him pronouns bit say they are female?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Dragon Master, Feb 12, 2022.

  1. Dragon Master

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    Okay, today I came across the phenomenon that there are butch lesbians thst use he/him pronouns and a masculine name. Wouldn't that make them transmen and not lesbians. The idea is just mind-boggling and confusing for me. How does that even make sense? If you are using he/him pronouns, you are ensentially saying you are a man/masculine gender, right?
     
  2. quebec

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    Dragon.....Well...yes. At least as far as you and I are concerned! :old_smile: We have been going through a period of time when there have been an "Alphabet Soup" of new names/terms/labels for pronouns, genders and all kinds of other things in the LGBTQIA+......community. I personally don't have a problem with labels per se as many times they can help someone understand themselves better. When I finally accepted that I am and always have been gay, it was actually a relief to have the label "gay". It gave me, for the first time, a feeling of belonging, of knowing where I fit. Some folks (like me :old_big_grin: ) really need labels, others feel that a label puts them in a box and restricts them. I'm ok either way and there are times when we do need several labels or terms to describe something that is very obvious. For instance, having a separate label for straight, gay, bi and nonbinary are obvious and needed. Perhaps a few of the other newer labels & terms are also, but I think and so do many others, that it's gotten out of control. :old_confused: We are at the place where sometimes a person will describe themselves with a list of terms that leave everybody else confused...I don't think that helps the overall acceptance of our community. Just my opinion. :old_rolleyes:
    .....David :gay_pride_flag:
     
  3. LostInDaydreams

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    Could it be that they are flexible in their gender presentation and don’t exclusively present as masculine? Or, could it be that they present as masculine, but don’t identify as male or as a man? Without talking to each individual person, all we can do is make guesses as to how they understand their gender.

    I think the question being asked here is how far does gender presentation determine sexuality, and to what extent they are linked. It’s an interesting question, and who should make the decision about where the line is drawn? If a lesbian presents as butch or masculine, has a masculine hair cut, wears masculine clothes, has masculine mannerisms, etc., then it’s OK for them to call themselves a lesbian? But, if they adopt a masculine name and/or masculine pronouns too, then it’s not OK for them to call themselves a lesbian?

    I think labels are often about “best fit” and communicating something that is actually very complex in the simplest way possible. I do agree with David’s point about the “alphabet soup”, but would say that the terms and labels being discussed here are all very mainstream. So, let’s say a person presents as masculine, with male pronouns, but is comfortable with having a woman’s body and is exclusively attracted to woman. In terms of sexuality, is lesbian then the best fit?

    I would just add the caveat, that the above is written on the assumption that the person in question is happy and comfortable in how they identify, and that their choices are not being influenced by outside factors, such a pressure from others, trauma, etc. and that they are not still questioning, confused or otherwise mentally or emotionally uncomfortable.

    Just my thoughts. :slight_smile:
     
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  4. Batman

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    ask them, theyre the ones who are experiencing that feeling
     
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  5. Dragon Master

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    I do not know anyone personally who uses he/him but is a lesbian, I just heard of this phenomenon a couple days ago and wad confused.
     
  6. RhuBlack

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    It is not uncommon at all. A lot of butches are transgender, and are much happier with he/him, than with she/her. Other prefer different pronouns, from they to ze. Some identify as lesbian, others as gay - primarily an age and culture thing as lesbian has specific connotations, that not all are happy with.
     
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  7. Dragon Master

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    Could you elaborate on the specific connotations of "lesbian". I don't fully understand what you are trying to say.
     
  8. RhuBlack

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    For people my age, lesbian was very much connected with lesbian feminism. Lesbian feminists at the time were very anti-masc. gay was a more umbrella term, so gay woman or just gay was a better option.
     
  9. Andreana

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    What a believe is that gender and pronouns are completely different things. Gender is somebodys gender although they might want to be referred as something else. Like somebody could be nonbinary and not have an exact female or male gender yet they could use female or male pronouns.
     
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