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General News Hillary Clinton names as her running mate

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by AwesomGaytheist, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Argentwing

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    You mentioned consequentialism. Those things you said (btw, who said anything about a nuclear war?) are possible consequences of a Trump win. But they aren't *end* consequences unless that nuclear war happens and the nation/world is annihilated. They are the nadir of things before people refuse to take it anymore. I have resolved not to vote for predators hoping to prevent the worst from happening at all, rather than sooner or later. But it won't work as long as people keep biting the bullet and voting for these candidates who will perpetuate the system that benefits them and harms everyone else.
     
  2. midwestgirl89

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    I think it's a smart choice too. I like him from what I've seen. He probably isn't the most left winged person in the world but he is still left-winged. He speaks up for minorities it seems.

    If Hillary chose Warren I feel like it could have been really detrimental to her campaign. I like Warren but people already sort of paint Hillary into this "bitch" category and then you have Warren who people would put into a "hardcore outspoken feminist" category which to me and most of us is awesome but to the general public....well let's just say an outspoken woman is not often taken seriously and is seen as threatening.

    He is a good speaker and a positive guy. He brings some humor as well. She needs some humor in her campaign and a positive jolt of energy. I think he can bring a bit of that to her campaign. He isn't perfect of course but he really had people excited during his speech today.
     
  3. Austin

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    You're hilarious. Hillary Clinton is responsible for so many deaths already.... The difference between Trump and Hillary is that Hillary has a track record for killing and abusing "brown" people whole Trump hasn't actually done that yet.

    In the words of Hillary Clinton: "We came, we saw, he died HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA."
     
  4. Invidia

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    Yeah, Hillary has plenty of blood on her hands, what with her imperialist feminism and whatnot. Well, Trump does too as a capitalist, of course.
     
  5. Herbert

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    You know, this is the sort of thing that makes me sigh. Give me evidence of a single murder on her part, or give up these ridiculous conspiracy theories.

    It is certainly an end consequence for the people who die in poverty. The candidate after Trump isn't going to be a Sanders; it's going to be another Hillary. Nobody is going to magically become more progressive, and magically acquire a higher standard of candidates, just because of a bad 4 years. They're going to go back to normal politicians; Hillary is no worse than Nixon, or Bush, or the other Clinton, or Reagan. She is a standard politician, not a demonic entity out to suck your soul. Set up high standards for political morality, and you'll be continually unhappy. This isn't a slippery slope situation, this is a straight line. The situation of decades is suddenly unacceptable to you, and you're willing to have people die just to grant some ephemeral 'people refusing to take it any more'. No, people are not going to refuse to take 'it' anymore, they're going to go right back to 'it', because your political and moral views are not what people default to after hardship.
     
  6. Invidia

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    Herbert, I hope you do understand that there isn't the question of whether Clinton personally killed anyone, right? She is indirectly responsible for many, many deaths as a result of her support of neoliberalism and imperialism throughout her career.

    I'll just stop there. Now start blabbing about conspiracies? No one here is saying Hillary is a reptilian. We're just saying she's a politicin with a shady track record.
    Full article: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-feminism/
     
  7. Simple Thoughts

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    No actually.

    The only people responsible for Trump being president, if Trump wins, are the people who voted for Donald Trump. I'm getting really sick of this shift of blame magic trick everyone keeps trying to pull.

    "Oh my god, you actually voted for someone you believe it! HOW DARE YOU!?"

    No get lost...just get lost.

    I didn't vote for Trump so Trump isn't my responsibility, the people who vote for Trump are responsible for Trump and only them. Nobody else endorsed him.

    ---------- Post added 24th Jul 2016 at 10:01 AM ----------

    Honestly I see the democratic and republican party dying right now anyways. The majority of young conservatives at this point are proud libertarians, and that's probably the reason that Gary Johnson is doing as well as he is right now.

    On the other hand the young Liberals/progressives are too far left for a center-right pro corporation party like the democratic party. So the younger generations are already looking into alternatives.

    I see the left moving to the green party, and the right moving to the libertarian party once the younger generations become a significant enough portion of the voting population and the older generations die out a bit.


    It doesn't take a genius to realize that our two party system is failing us on every level and the country has become more and more and more and more divided and that neither republicans or democrats are that interested in lifting so much as a finger to help the people. They pick a 'pet' issue each cycle and they have a big media circus over it before one side 'wins' and meanwhile with everyone focused on that both parties are calling up wallstreet and going, "Okay what do you want us to do to screw the middle class over?"

    If you don't believe me on that why not go look at the average household income in this country from the 90's and compare it to today...for the top 1% it's gone wayyyyy up and for everyone else it's been cut in half or worse.
     
    #27 Simple Thoughts, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  8. Herbert

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    I'm going to say one thing- this country is not a hellhole. Right now, the economic perspective is pretty much sunshine and roses. Global poverty is going down, starvation is going down, unemployment is going down, the Statue of Liberty is farting sunshine and rainbows. It is politically expedient for politicians to pretend that the economy sucks, and that alone should make you distrust the idea that the economy is actually terrible. Wall Street is not made up of demons, it's made up of people. Not saints, of course, but the idea that they're actively trying to screw people over is absurd. If you got rid of the concept of stocks and bonds, the economy would collapse. The economy is fine. Recent college graduates have always had sucky existences.

    I would be perfectly giddy if the Libertarian Party replaced the Republican Party, but the Green Party? The Green Party platform is barely even developed beyond environmentalism, and they remain significantly smaller than the other major third party. I expect, 100 years from now, we'll still have the Democrats (likely shifted left, unfortunately), and the other side will be the Libertarians.

    I'm not trying to push the blame, or anything similar; the fact of the matter is, if Trump wins because someone like you votes for a third party, it is, in fact, the people who voted third parties fault. If you pull out a Jenga block from a tower, resulting in that tower being smaller than a nearby competing Jenga tower, it is, in fact, your fault that said Jenga tower is smaller.

    Sigh. Okay, so you disagree with her foreign policy, and you think that it makes her a demon incarnate working for 'The Man'. Once again, these policies are not uncommon. You can make anything sound terrible when you use words like 'vicious', 'monstrous', and similar. A majority of people supported the Iraq war, would you prefer that we send in troops rather than drones (and, hint hint, if the top of the federal government does it, it isn't illegal), saying that she is 'widely recognized' as something means nothing, Israel isn't a villain, it's a country with people of its own that we're politically obligated to defend, and I'd like an unbiased source on that last number. I happen to fully support NATO and free trade in general, thank you very much, and "Corporate Feminism" as opposed to woman's rights doesn't even make sense. I don't believe in excess foreign interventionism, and don't share many of her positions, but her actions were all perfectly reasonable at the time.

    Okay, I'm just going to put it this way; foreign policy is automatically going to cause deaths. She's in charge of foreign policy, her decisions are automatically going to cause deaths. You think that, in her position, you would have automatically done better? You wouldn't. All I saw in that article was opinion, charged language, uncited facts and figures, and general political blather.

    You're a Sanders-esque Liberal. I'm a moderate Libertarian. We have completely different views on trade and foreign policy, and I'm perfectly comfortable voting for Hillary given her record there. It isn't perfect, of course, but it's certainly better than Trump's Scottish golf courses and xenophobia, and that's who is getting elected if Hillary isn't. This is a binary decision, and, quite frankly, you're making the wrong one.
     
  9. Invidia

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    I'm not trying to say these kinds of policies are uncommon. I'm trying to say I don't see a significant enough difference between the slightly worse alternative of Trump than Hillary.

    Hint, hint, international law exists. Hint, hint, 'Murica is not the ruler of the universe.

    There are no unbiased sources. It does not exist.

    Most facts were cited.

    Dude, I'm not even American. XD I'm from Sweden. And no, I don't support Sanders. And no, I'm not a liberal. If you must know, I'm an anarchist.
    I would say it's only a tiny bit better, and thus don't give a fuck. I will not settle for this bullshit.
     
    #29 Invidia, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  10. Herbert

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    ...

    No offense intended, but I don't think I have much to say if you're an anarchist without any actual say in the US election. You're entitled to your opinion, and I have no real reason to convince you of mine.
     
    #30 Herbert, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  11. midwestgirl89

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    'Murica is definitely not the best country ever. But the world IS watching. All presidents have deaths on their hands. There isn't a single president that hasn't been responsible for at least some deaths. But Trump has already threatened to go to war with ISIS on day 1 when he is elected which is really dangerous. Hillary and Trump are both going to keep some sort of occupation in the Middle East going on which is terrible because I hate war and am not ok with it BUT Trump is clearly going to target Muslims specifically and make it into a religious war. He will probably even start a nuclear war let's be real.

    Also Americans have to think about our well-being domestically. Trump will divide people into "different" categories and will fuel hatred against minorities. The KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, and other white supremacist groups fuel on this sort of rhetoric. He will appoint a Republican Supreme Court justice who will shut down any progress we could make toward equality.

    Trump will speak for our country internationally which is actually a really bad thing because other countries look at us and are shaking their heads at our choice of Trump.

    Trump is terrible at diplomacy. I doubt he even understands basic geography. He said Scotland voted yes on Brexit...... He is a terrible mouthpiece for us because he creates a "Us Vs. You" mentality. What do terrorist groups thrive on? They recruit by saying the USA hates them and that the USA is basically a huge country of hate. (which we sort of are but...) We aren't doing ourselves any favors by electing a man like Trump.

    The consequences of Trump ARE a lot worse than the consequences of Hillary. I do agree with that. Hillary has her negatives but so did Obama. Obama didn't stop attacking people in the Middle East. He didn't close Guantanamo Bay. But could you imagine if someone like Bush was elected again and declared straight up war and sent in 100x more troops? Trump is a Bush but he has no experience and will be a hateful speaker for the world to watch.

    I understand not wanting to have Hillary or Obama on your conscience because they did not/will not immediately occupation in the Middle East.

    Here are some good things about Hillary since people seem to not be open to even thinking about Hillary...

    Women's Health:

    "Politicians have no business interfering with women's personal health decisions. I will oppose efforts to roll back women's access to reproductive health care, including Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood. As president, I'll stand up for Planned Parenthood and women’s access to critical health services, including safe, legal abortion."

    Gun Control:

    "More than 33,000 Americans are killed by guns each year. It’s time to act. As President, I'll take on the gun lobby and fight for commonsense reforms to keep guns away from terrorists, domestic abusers, and other violent criminals—including comprehensive background checks and closing loopholes that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands."

    Tax Reform:

    "The wealthiest pay too little in taxes while the middle class needs more relief. I'm going to fix that. I’ll close corporate tax loopholes and make sure millionaires and billionaires can’t pay lower rates than middle-class families. And I’ll give tax relief to working families who are struggling with costs from college to health care."

    LGBT Rights:

    "The U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on marriage equality represents America at its best: just, fair and moving toward equality. Now we have more work to do. I'll fight to ensure lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans have full equality under the law, and to end discrimination in employment, housing, schools, and other aspects of our society."

    Immigration:

    "We need comprehensive immigration reform with a path to full and equal citizenship. If Congress won't act, I'll defend President Obama’s executive actions—and I'll go even further to keep families together. I'll end family detention, close private immigrant detention centers, and help more eligible people become naturalized."



    LET"S GO TO TRUMP NOW

    Immigration:

    "“They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists,” Trump said of undocumented Mexican immigrants while announcing his candidacy last June."

    “We're going to build the wall, and we're going to stop it. It's going to end,” Trump said at a campaign stop in March, referring to illegal immigration.


    Women's Health:

    Trump also wrote: “Public funding of abortion providers is an insult to people of conscience at the least and an affront to good governance at best.”


    Guns:

    “We're going to cherish the Second Amendment,” Trump said during a May 7 campaign stop in Washington state.


    "Ban all Muslims"


    You can't even say that Hillary is even comparable to Trump, just saying.
     
    #31 midwestgirl89, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2016
  12. Herbert

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    You know, this sort of post makes me wish this forum had a like button.
     
  13. Invidia

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    I think there is a very small chance that Trump will "start a nuclear war". Only in songs romanticising gay culture does that happen (ten points if you get the reference). I advice you 1) read up on the cold war, MAD, and the political history of nuclear arms in general, or 2) if you've already done that, just go through your thoughts again.

    Other countries aren't shaking their heads at you just because of Trump, they're shaking their heads at Hillary too - that you allowed these two to become the candidates is what people shake their heads at - though I personally don't have much interest in blaming the people of the US per se.

    You could might as well argue against Hillary on each of those issues. She is 100% opportunistic. She cares about nothing but her own success. She's been racist, she's been tolerant, she's been more aligned with the Republican Party, she's been progressive, she's been for and against just about everything as she saw it fit in furthering hre own career.
     
    #33 Invidia, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  14. Austin

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    To give you the most well-known example: she voted for the invasion of Iraq. I'm sure I don't need to explain to you the countless lives that's cost. If we want to get technical, you say if we elect Donald Trump and we didn't vote for Hillary, we are responsible for the deaths of people -- well, it's unlikely Donald Trump will personally kill anyone either. Both of them are going to cause a lot of unnecessary deaths whether it be at home and/or abroad.
     
  15. midwestgirl89

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    That could be true where you live but my sister visited all over Asia and they want her to vote Hillary. They hate Trump. I have friends from NZ, Canada, and an eastern European country and they say their country overwhelmingly thinks it's crazy Trump could be elected. My sister also visited South America so it seems to be a thing worldwide that people don't want Trump.
     
  16. Invidia

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    Oh yes, Trump is certainly more disliked - I did not dispute this - but I'm also saying that many people are disenchanted by the dynamic of the two of them being the only options.
     
  17. purplewolf6

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    There are more options but of course Trump or Hillary will win. I think this election pushes a demand for at least one more party having a shot to win. It just comes up to Green or Libertarian Party to get in the debates. Many people are getting fed up with waiting but there has to be a big demand.

    I don't see me voting for either nor will I act better than others just because I disagree with them.
     
  18. Simple Thoughts

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    "I'm not trying to push the blame, or anything similar; the fact of the matter is, if Trump wins because someone like you votes for a third party, it is, in fact, the people who voted third parties fault. If you pull out a Jenga block from a tower, resulting in that tower being smaller than a nearby competing Jenga tower, it is, in fact, your fault that said Jenga tower is smaller."

    Well if you wanna use that analogy than I content that the block being removed is the progressive wing of the democratic party and the one trying desperately to get rid of it is Hilary Clinton and the establishment democrats...notice how they've not so much as lifted a finger to get our votes and in fact actively berate and snub Bernie supporters? That's what someone does when they are trying to tell you to get lost not what they do when they want you to support them. Now we have the emails links showing that the DNC were actively against Sanders from the beginning one member was even suggesting they push a narrative about him being an atheist to discredit him.

    How am I supposed to vote for people like that in good conscience?


    I won't even acknowledge your comments on the economy because we're still recovering from the 08 recession and now we have both a real estate bubble and a student loan bubble that are threatening to burst and if that happens we'll have a second recession, but yeah the economy is totes fine right now.

    The green party is just fine. They do actually have policies beyond the environment by the way.
     
  19. greatwhale

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    Here is a terrific reality check from Michael Moore.

    In essence we can, amongst our liberal, educated selves, use facts, logic and fear in this bubble that we live in, but there are some very good reasons to think that Trump has a pretty good chance of winning...
     
  20. midwestgirl89

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    Yikes I hope people vote Hillary then....