Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by AwesomGaytheist, Jul 22, 2016.
Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia!
'Kay. Looks like he's got his troll face going for him at least.
I think it was a terrible decision myself. If there was any hope that the Bernie Sanders supporters were going to suck it up and vote Clinton, it's out the window now. Most of us are going Green Party or Libertarian at this point because we can tell pretty easily when a party has zero interest in representing the people.
I'm not gonna cast my vote on a wall street sellout party and I'm definitely not gonna cast my vote on crazy people so that pretty much leaves Jill Stein in my book.
Gary Johnson is only like 3% away from the magic number at this point and if he hits that he's in the debates and the lid is blown wide open on this two party broken system.
Back on topic though...
Yeah I'm not surprised she picked Tim Kaine he's a corporate sellout who loves the banks and their bad practices, plus he's so forgettable that nobody even cares who he is, and most importantly while he's useless in every single way he is from Virginia so maybe he'll somewhat help her with a key battleground state, but beyond that he'll do nothing for her in this election.
This is pretty much what we were expecting. She was promising a bunch of leftist stuff during the primaries and now she's doing her "piviot" to the center because she's won in the primaries.
I hate that we have a term in politics for a politician promising a bunch of stuff to win a primary and then giving their base the finger and being like, "Lol I lied, but it's too late I'm in the general now bitches!"
We just have a casual term for that a 'pivot' that's how corrupt our politicians are lying is a savvy political move
I think Kaine was a great choice with the speech he just made. America was not built on fear and Trump is fear. Kaine and Hillary will lead the USA to a better place than Trump and Pence who live on fear. Fear of those that are different is not something Kaine has so I am glad she chose him. If people vote third party (which I strongly disagree with but it's not up to me) then so be it but Kaine sounds like a cool guy.
Sensible decision, really. I certainly prefer him to Warren, or other people who I disagree with fundamentally on a number of issues, as a Libertarian.
Also as a Libertarian, and partly addressing Simple Thoughts, if you vote for someone other than Clinton and Trump wins, let the millions unemployed and nuclear wars started stand firmly on your conscience and on your head. If Trump wins because people can't seem to understand the concept of 'this is the far better of two options, and there are only two real options', you, on a personal level, are directly responsible for the newly homeless people that slowly starve to death.
Which is better, to be attacked and robbed in the street and recognize the assailant, or to get sicker and sicker slowly, unknowingly poisoned while your caretaker steals your medicine a little at a time? Because "lesser evil" voting is the latter case. As far as I'm concerned, they are equally evil. If we get Trump, it will be a dramatic downward spiral for the country, which will put more weight on the idea that something is unacceptably wrong with how we do things. If we get Clinton, it will be bloodsucking politics as normal, but slightly emboldened because we keep falling for it and allowing more brazen corruption.
Things may have to get worse before they get better. Even if it means I will personally become homeless, I won't vote against the interests of the country by picking either candidate who is approved by the elites (or is an elite in the case of Trump, since he clearly doesn't give a quarter fuck). Voting is supposed to empower the people, not give them a patronizing desperate deflection towards one death or the other.
I know I will never change someone's vote so it's fine but I don't think a poisoning analogy is the correct one really but idk. Being poisoned slowly or quickly is letting Trump win and then letting them crown a Supreme Court justice and slowly take over the House and Senate. It will be a fast yet slow takeover. Hillary will keep things the same. Thing as they are aren't great but we aren't in a downward spiral. I personally think (not a personal jab at you) it's foolish for people to be so stubborn as to not vote Hillary/Kaine that they practically let Trump/Pence win who hate all of us. If that's not a fast and also slow poisoning I don't know what is.
---------- Post added 23rd Jul 2016 at 04:04 PM ----------
I agree with this although I won't address anyone personally. I address the sociological group of Bernie Bros and Bernie or Bust people that will split the vote. It's selfish (at the group overall not you personally) to group think that way. I will ultimately respect your votes but it's not a smart way to go.
Here we go again. The far left needs to realize that as a party, we can either win, or we can have an ultra-left wing socialist nominee like they want and get crushed. The new #DemExit wing of the party is free to leave, and in fact, as I said in another thread, I'd hold the door open as they walked out. But I guarantee you they'll be back after a Republican wins the presidency. They'll learn their lesson eventually.
I live in Virginia and have some familiarity with Kaine. Have also been listening to the news (NPR) since the announcement of Kaine and to some of his speech.
For those who are expressing such dislike for him - I have to wonder how much you really know about him or his background. Just because he doesn't choose to yell and scream about progressive issues doesn't mean he doesn't care about them or hasn't worked to advance them.
Stop shaming and attacking people in this disgusting way. Yes, lesser evilism in all its glory, but at some point you have to draw a line, or you'll simply be lying down before the face of dystopia to come. Where to draw this line is up to the person, and it is not your place to tell anyone that the line hasn't been crossed yet - it isn't your line, it's the line of the person in question.
Some people's consciences are more sensitive than others. I for one, could not vote for Hillary. I would personally feel very emotionally bad by doing so.
Was hoping for Warren or Sanders but oh well. She could have picked Mickey Mouse and I'll still vote for her to keep Trump out
I'm not sure that it really makes any difference as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately, this is Hillary Clinton's show. She is the one who would be President. And it's her strengths, weaknesses, and vision that we need to consider when making a decision.
That's very kind of you. Hold the door, but don't stand there waiting -- I won't be back. I will NOT be a part of the problem; I won't be someone who perpetuates this hostage situation of voting against someone rather than voting for someone you actually think would do a good job. Once enough people come together and realize this, things may actually start to change, but it starts with each and every one of us.
I'd totally be down for a Mickey Mouse presidency.
I'll second... third? this.
At least Mickey can operate a steamboat, that's more than Trump can do. :lol:
Well, isn't that a dramatic way of putting it.
Hillary Clinton isn't actually any worse than Reagan, or Nixon, or the other Clinton, or Bush, or a multitude of presidents in the past. Yes, only you get to draw your moral boundaries. No, drawing moral boundaries doesn't absolve you of the numerous deaths likely to occur if Trump wins. If Trump wins, people die; by letting Trump win, you are indirectly killing people. That isn't an attack, and that isn't a shame; that's a fact. I belong to the philosophical school of consequentialism; you determine the moral rightness of an act by its end results, not by how it feels, or looks, or if it seems mean. The consequence of Hillary winning is that things continue on as they are; not perfect by any means, but not appreciably worse. The consequence of Trump winning is that the economy tanks, people die, and we possibly get into a nuclear war with someone. You see an appearance of a corrupt Hillary, and a terrible Trump, and the emotional pain of voting for either is about equal, so you use that to make your decision. That method of decision making is terrible, because it causes people to act contrary to their interests.
You can justify your decision to not vote for Hillary in other ways, once your logic kicks in, but you've already made the decision. If you had to purchase a trunk for your school supplies, and your first instinct is to choose the shiny one, you can write an entire paper on why the shiny one is better in a variety of ways, but your ultimate method of decision making is based on shininess. Sanders supporters dislike Hillary, so they come up with pages and pages of reasons why they shouldn't vote for her, but all of that reasoning is meaningless, because the final line of the paper has already been written. "Therefore, I will not vote for Hillary." Reasoning is used to come to decisions, it isn't used to justify decisions already made.
All I know is at this point choosing between Trump and Clinton is like choosing whether I want to get shot in the head or stabbed in the back.
He seems like a good enough guy and he has done good things before. He is way more progressive than Pence for sure.
---------- Post added 23rd Jul 2016 at 10:16 PM ----------
I think Clinton's chosen someone above all whom she can govern with. Not a pretty campaign asset as much as someone she's fine spending 4-8 years with someone a few doors down from her office.
And it's important to note that Clinton has been given the most support by centrist Democrats and probably sees Kaine as a chance to take the centre-ground the Republicans have certainly abandoned.
She is not obliged to do what the hard-left wishes. She is seeking a national mandate, not further support from her own party. On top of that, she has a reputation for divisiveness and is hated or liked along almost entirely partisan lines. Someone who doesn't have that attitude of divisive partisanship is a very solid pick for her campaign on the national level.
And simply put, look at his career history and question whether he's someone you'd rather in the White House than Trump and Pence.
Honestly, Tim Kaine is the sort of man I support more than Hillary Clinton. Against the death penalty, in favour of solid, nuanced policies for economic growth (including the TPP) while respecting workplace and other social protections, increased access to healthcare and so on. These demonstrate very progressive principles put into practice in a way that crosses the aisle of politics. That should hardly be seen as a disappointment.