Gay forum from other perspectives

That could be very thought provoking, providing it was a sharing forum and not just a religion bashing one. I've been a Catholic my whole life and continue to be, and I've seen the great divide between the Catholic hierarchy and the very conservative subset of followers, and the everyday people who often are very supportive and see through the bullshit and posturing. I've also been roundly attached on EC and accused of being a self loathing excuse for a gay man for not dropping my faith entirely, which is why I say it would have to be a sharing forum and not a grievance one.

Your situation is probably far more controversial and difficult than mine could ever be, and I'm sure that getting the perspective of others who share your faith and still want to be able to reconcile it with your orientation would probably be a great comfort.

 

All I can add is religion is a form of control and control looks down on that which interferes in any way with its dominating control.
Things like free thought, free expression of sexuality, a lack of fear when faced with those that oppose or wish to dominate...

 

Are you certain religion is the focus? That was my first question when I read your post.

Different regions of the world view homosexuality and transgender differently. Although these views are sometimes influenced by religion, in my observation, the connection people from those regions seek isn't religious so much as others of a shared experience and understanding of what it is like to be gay in their region.

I always try to check a person's location prior to responding to posts, as their location is a consideration in how I will respond. For example, I would never tell someone to be open and out about their sexuality if they were from a country where it is illegal.

I think more people should be sensitive to that, and to world views on these topics, as opposed to blind to any view other than their own situation... or that of their own region.

 

The thing to understand about religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism (or another) is that all are open to interpretation and that's exactly what happens in the real world. No church, mosque, synagogue, priest, pastor, imam, rabbi has the final, definitive word on what it all means and that's why they don't agree and we have these different denominations and traditions.

Nobody can understand the mind of God and pronounce another person as broken or evil in some way. Even the writers of holy scripture failed to arrive at a common position on all matters of faith, doctrine and religious observance and that's how we have come to evolve from tribal, nomadic people who sacrifice animals as an offering to God.

No concrete suggestions here, but I hope it offers something to think about.

 

Silas, I posted the following list as a reply to another post of yours, but wanted to make sure that it reaches you, I hope that this would be a good starting point for your search for peace:

• Muhsin Hendricks (2010). Islamic Texts: A Source for Acceptance of Queer Individuals into Mainstream Muslim Society. The Equal Rights Review. (http://www.equalrightstrust.org/ertdocumentbank/muhsin.pdf)
• Tariq Ramadan (2009). Islam and Homosexuality. http://tariqramadan.com/english/islam-and-homosexuality/
• Mehdi Hasan (2013). As a Muslim, I struggle with the idea of homosexuality – but I oppose homophobia. http://www.newstatesman.com/mehdi-h...ruggle-idea-homosexuality-i-oppose-homophobia
• Kugle, Scott Siraj al-Haqq. (2010) Homosexuality in Islam: Critical Reflection on Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims (pp. 184-185). Oneworld Publications. Kindle Edition.
• Wallace, Brandon. (2014) Straight-Face (Kindle Locations 148-149). Green Bridge Press. Kindle Edition.
• Lowe, B (2001). God Made me Gay: A Letter to Louise. http://godmademegay.blogspot.com/p/letter-to-louise.html

 

I too can see some subtle differences between LGBTQ+ from different cultures. I am from the "east" part, but I learn a lot from people of all cultures on EC. I noticed despite the subtle differences in approach, the struggles and emotions are pretty similar. I really enjoyed the solidarity from all part of the world on EC.

There is a few well-meaning advice that fellow EC members gave that may not applies to this part (East / South East Asia / etc) of the world -

(1) Advice to speak to therapists -- many therapists in my part of society are religious affiliated, and they are still pushing the ex-gay type of "cures". There are several ex-gay organization receiving large donations, and they continues to harm people mentally. There are therapists trained by these "ex-gay" organization, active within colleges and schools, continue to perpetrate discrimination against LGBTQ+. We even have government sponsored camps and religious classes to cure "gay-ness". Hence, speaking to therapist here, almost always lead to more harm.

(2) Be open about it to spouse / family / friends -- although we have more exposure to LGBTQ cultures nowadays, many people still view us as some sort of perversion. It become extremely delicate when it comes to us using the "coming out process" so well defined in the west. There are absolutely NO protection for anyone that got fired, got discriminated, because of who they are. We continues to see trans-people got murdered, without much legal repercussion to perpetrators. In my country, the police often have a nonchalant attitudes towards violent crime against trans-people.

(3) Advice to speaks to LGBTQ friendly organization -- we have many great people dedicate their life to LGBTQ protection, but they are just way too overwhelmed. Many of their scale and scopes are very limited, they are subject to constant harassment from the mainstream society, and they are very under-funded. Many of the people that dedicate their life to the cause full-time, are subject to chronic stress, poverty, and lack of training. In a lot of case, there are even no LGBTQ friendly organization in our cities.

There are many more differences, but these 3 are what I can think of now.

 

Neogcd, you nailed it! those are major issues alright. I wholeheartedly agree with your points 2 and 3, but I partially disagree with your first point about therapy.

There are options, the least of which is either to find an open, liberal therapist, or better off, try to get therapy online using video conferencing. There are many therapists here in the west that would provide such an option, all you need is ask. Of course, you'd then have to deal with the payment options (mostly credit cards or paypal), and how can you conceal those payments from being tracked down by your family members (wife?). But there should be some way for a vent out venue of some sort. In the past it was difficult, but now with all of the online services, it is mostly available to any one in the world .. given that you got internet connectivity of course.

Those points that you bring are what add to the depressive nature of the issue in the Muslim countries in general. A gay person would feel trapped with no where to go, even the authorities wouldn't give him/her the basic human rights nor protection, on the contrary, they'll prosecute anyone who demonstrate support to the LGBT community, as a good example, see what is happening now in Egypt. This adds to the complexity of living there .. and frankly I don't see it changing any time soon. It is totally different than the western societies, where many have found a peaceful relationship between religion (Christianity) and homosexuality .. something that is pretty far from happening in Islam, for many reasons. And it is not only regarded as a basic human right, but also justified in the religion in many cases.

Being an activist in a Muslim country and to try to stand for LGBT rights would be very similar to suicide. Being out needs tough groups standing in solidarity, they need media support and religious clerks backing. Let's hope for the change to happen sooner than later .. too many innocent souls are being tortured and tormented for no reason.

 

I couldn't agree more.

For the sake of discussion - few years back, I saw a web series made by Lisa Kudrow (Phoebe from FRIENDS) called "Web Therapy". Lisa's character would conduct therapy sessions through webcam..... just like what you've described earlier. I keep wondering whether there are any liberal therapists from US / UK that are doing it, this would be great for certain segment of LGBTQ+ in this part of the world.

The social impact would still be limited, because it is probably only accessible for English speaking middle class, which is not the majority. But, it would still be a great help for LGBTQ+ who needs and can afford it. Then there are also issues that you brought up - how to conceal the payment charged to credit card. In addition to that - how to discern a good & honorable therapist from shady one, because being gay could mean career suicide or actual death in certain part of this world. Shady therapist might not protect their clients properly.

Availability of online therapists that understand Asia's cultural context might also be limited in the west - challenges faced by LGBTQ+ in Buddhist Thai, will be different from Islamic Indonesia and Confucius Taiwan.

So many people needs help, but so little help is available. These are old problems we have - The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Every year

 

It is tough, it is like the west 100 years ago, may be even harsher. I wonder if anyone has any solution to those who live there? It seems that it has to come from a religious-based discussion. Somehow the religious clerks have to at least condemn the prosecution of LGBT community. This won't happen overnight for sure. Some Muslim scholars based in the west, for example, have adopted the acceptance and integration of homosexuals in the society .. but still considering the action as a sin .. Is it a step towards a better understanding, a better way to deal with a group that would thrive if given the chance to be themselves? Who knows, may be the change will come from the west.

 

There is a popular opinion among us that blamed the west for bringing homophobic worldview to the East through colonialism. I do not know how true is it. I frankly do not quite believe it is all rainbow and sunshine for gay people in Asia, prior to western colonialism.

But my personal experience is that, many of the help and enlightenment on my own sexuality mainly comes from the west. Especially through popular cultures consumption, case in points include the lesbian wedding on FRIENDS, Brokeback Mountain, Modern family and etc. It present to me a life, a possibility and imagination that LGBTQ+ doesn't always means "Sodom and Gomorrah".

For some of us here, trapped in an oppressive environment, sometimes seeing Cameron, Mitchell and Lily on modern family, can give us hope to carry on.