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Free will?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by CyclingFan, Dec 2, 2014.

?

Free will?

  1. Yes

    45 vote(s)
    80.4%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. CyclingFan

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    Yes, we would have to rethink "morality". We might even have to try this "compassion" thing I've been hearing so much about. :slight_smile:

    It would be a lot harder for everyone that likes to judge other people.
     
  2. resu

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    No, it's not completely free. We have biological urges that lead us to do some things like basic necessities (eating, pooping, sleeping). But, that also doesn't mean we're a slave to our genetics, and we definitely have a lot more control over our subconscious than most animals.
     
  3. SomeLeviathan

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    um... you haven't actually answered the objection to hard determinism that free will renders moral responsibility meaningless.
     
  4. CyclingFan

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    Lol...thank you! This made me laugh quite a lot today, very much needed.
     
  5. SomeLeviathan

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    I don't agree with Strawson on this but if you want to talk about philosophical issues at least please educate yourself on the debates that go on in those fields.

    There are hard determinists who accept that hard determinism renders moral responsibility meaningless, and argues as such, such as Galen Strawson: https://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites... of Moral Responsibility - Galen Strawson.pdf

    Then there are hard determinists like Sam Harris who argue that moral responsibility is compatible with an incompaitablist view of free will (hard determinism), but his ethical system has a load of its own problems and isn't really worth considering.

    that said, thank you for demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect: Dunning
     
  6. Radioactive Bi

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    I would postulate that the quantum mechanical nature of the neuro electric interactions within our brains would indeed allow free will.

    Happy days :slight_smile:
     
  7. SomeLeviathan

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    if probabalistic events are the causes of actions, even if you can't predict them in the way that Hard determinism hypothesizes, how does that get you free will? it just gets you randomness and indeterminism. Strawson brings this up in his articles on determinism and specifically argues that quantum indeterminism (whiich I don't understand because I'm not a physicist) doesn't get you free will in the way that libertarians want.
     
  8. The Janitor

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    Yes, we have free will, but our actions are influenced so much by our surroundings and environment that we can't discount the pressure that society and our own biology has on our actions and choices.
     
  9. Argentwing

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    I tentatively subscribe to this idea, but that's no reason why free will can't exist. Because honestly, why would some higher form of life run our simulation if they already knew the outcome?

    From what I know of programming, there is no way to create a truly random number. The "random number generators" computers use depend on a "seed" or constant entered by the programmer that changes the outcome. I think our perception that there might not be true free will is related to this. If we are a simulation, the developers intended for us to have free will, but could not completely leave our actions up to chance.
     
  10. Hexagon

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    They would just refute determinism, not permit free will.
     
  11. Michael

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    I asked myself that and I came up with this : For the same reason you watch a movie you already saw : It's fun to watch.

    True, about the random number generators, but you can improve the source of the seed by using some kind of analog source to the point that gets pretty damned close to what appears to be "random". There is even a particular patent on this I'm thinking of, and as you have probably guessed, it's related to computers and cryptography. Maybe later I'll find and post the link.

    What we think of ourselves will be biased by our own limitations. We probably can't understand certain things with the brains we have, or using our brains on their usual state. Perhaps interfaces between human brain and computers will light the way to true understanding of the self.

    No, I don't think we have complete and absolute and undeniable free will, because we are pretty limited : We can go as far as we think we can go. We are able to take decissions, to act, but only in determined ways under determined circumstances. It creates the illusion of free will, and we like to think we are that special... But we are not : Our brain (and it's particular state) is our trap.
    We are what we can be at a particular moment, and we take the decissions we believe we can take.

    Man's got to know his limitations :icon_wink
     
  12. burg

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    i be leave in Compatibilism. id define free will as freedom to act according to one's goals without arbitrary force from other individuals or institutions. tho i agree with determinism that choices are made unconsciously the concept of free will has great utility in law and governance. to go without a effective replacement to the concept of free will doesn't appear to be a legal advancement at least .
     
  13. LunaticSoul

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    I believe we do, to a degree. We're always influenced by our emotions, feelings, people, experience and whatnot but in the end we can reflect on this and make an informed choice.