LGBT News Finnish politician: "Marriage is about being a man and a woman, not love"

Sandrew255,

There is a legitimate way of interpreting Scripture whereby homosexual unions are cast in a negative light. So Christians who are convinced that the scriptures say homosexual conduct is a sin should not be condemned for believing so and applying that conviction to their own lives. Now, I completely agree with you that such a conviction cannot and should not be forced on another person who views the matter differently. Christians should not reasonably expect people of different creeds to live in a Christian way. That is a most unrealistic expectation. But I also do not believe that sincere Christians should be condemned for simply believing what the Bible says concerning homosexual conduct. All they are trying to do is live a life most consistent with what they genuinely believe is the will of God. Yes, there are a few nut jobs who grossly misrepresent the faith, but they really are a small and ultimately ineffectual minority.

As for the topic of divorce, you are right that many of the Christians today who vocally condemn homosexuality are somewhat more passive when it comes to divorce. To be clear though, no Christian would declare divorce to be something to be celebrated. Perhaps we are guilty of being too passive on certain matters and too harsh on others, but the common Christian consensus on divorce is that it most certainly something to be avoided if at all possible. No Christian I know would say that divorce is how God intends for any marriage to end. We are far from perfect representatives of our perfect Savior, and we need His grace to cover our sins as much as the next guy.

 

Yes, the view that homosexuality is inherently wrong should always be condemned, no matter what ideology they use to justify those disgusting views.

 

Condemning the view is one thing; condemning the people who hold that view is another.

The problem is that this woman believes her view should influence the law; that is where we run into trouble.

 

Invidia, that is your view on the matter, and I accept your right to it.

But to label those as disgusting who oppose it out of sincere religious conviction is a bit harsh. You are not compelled to believe in what the Bible teaches. But for Christians who look to it to guide their lives, it is of utmost importance for them to adhere to its teachings on sexual conduct and many other areas. They are not disgusting by default merely because they see value in living lives in accordance with God's will. Such a lifestyle, by the way, actually requires much courage and sacrifice, so it is not something that can be lightly condemned.

I absolutely do not support misguided Christians spewing hateful words at gay people. But hate can spew both ways. It's also very wrong to condemn the faithful merely because they take what they believe in seriously. Intolerance goes both ways, and one form of it is not less offensive than the other.

 

To be fair, many anti-gay Christians view homosexuals as disgusting and condemn them.

This can be taken one of two ways: for the homosexuals, it can be taken as a lesson in not stooping to their level; this is how they view you, so it would be best if you do not view them that way, because otherwise you are no better than they are, using the same type of condemnatory judgment that is dehumanizing and dismissive. At the same time it can be taken as an argument against a double standard: if Christians can condemn homosexuals, then homosexuals can condemn Christians*. In other words, you can't condemn homosexuals for their sinful lifestyle and then cry foul when you are condemned for your views. That is hypocrisy, plain and simple. Believe me, I would prefer it if we were not condemning in the first place, but if there is to be condemnation, then it must necessarily be allowed to go both ways.

*This of course does not account for the fact that the two are not mutually exclusive, but for the sake of argument, we are hypothesizing mutually exclusive examples.

She also did not say the people were disgusting; she said the views were disgusting.

 

I just think there's too much condemnation altogether on both sides. I do want to clarify that not all Christians label gay people as disgusting merely because they are homosexual. It is possible to still love the person while not celebrating certain aspects of their lifestyle. True Christian love should always seek to uplift others rather than knocking them down. We are called to be faithful to the truth of what we believe, but we are also commanded to speak that truth in a way that is grounded in unconditional love. That is often times a tricky line to walk, and admittedly we fall short at times in loving how our Savior does. But it's not quite accurate to say that just because a Christian does not agree with a homosexual lifestyle then that Christian also by default views gays as disgusting abominations. Only very unbalanced examples who are not living in accordance with scripture would adopt that precarious mindset.

 

I agree with that--not all Christians who disagree with homosexuality would view homosexuals as disgusting and perverted. But many do. The problem comes from the difficulty of separating the sin from the sinner. If you truly believe an action is repugnant, it is difficult to separate that action from the one who performs it. A parallel can be found on the secular side--the same can be said for anti-homosexual views. You can strongly dislike anti-homosexual views without disliking the people who hold them. That is, unless they are of the type who view homosexuals as disgusting perverts; then they are simply getting out what they put in. It's about reciprocity. If you treat homosexuals poorly, don't be surprised if you are treated poorly in response. Sounds a little like "do unto others..." doesn't it?

 

It does indeed, Libertino. I agree with what you said. Often times separating the sin from the sinner is a very difficult task. Yet as a Christian myself, I know that I cannot become lax in ever striving to do that. After all, I believe that is what is so compelling about what Christ did on the cross. That action was the most perfect example of once and for all separating the Sin from the Sinner. That's why I believe it is so very important for Christians to always keep that mindset at the forefront of their reasoning.

 

Yes, which is why I made sure to phrase it as such.

 

"marriage is not about love" undermining heterosexual marriage in one sentence. perhaps she didn't quite understand her objective haha

I can understand when people have religious basis for their disagreement with same-sex marriage, however in a secular society this should be largely irrelevant. I support to an extent individual churches right to decline to perform ceremonies for same-sex couples, but I do not support their continuous inclination to impose their personal beliefs on the state. the church should not have any influence over civil rights including right to civil marriage.

 

I always find it funny when people who are anti lgbt screw up and say something that can go against the same people who support them.

 

Hope her career is finnished.

 

:eusa_clap

 

If you poured over the new test marriage is not about love, it is about relief of males.
Is this right is this wrong, was this peter or God speaking thats up to the individuals who believe in it. Regardless condemning people is wrong, condemning actions is fine; as long as you don't shun/outcast/hate/etc people.

For instance hate the murder, not the murderer. Of course those Christians typically haven't even read the bible -_-..

 

True.

 

What...? In that case, marriage sounds awful.

 

Dammit you beat me to it!

 

I just googled her and apparently she has her own website, which is in English. It's filled with how she wants to help families, She even said that she wants "...a safer Finland for all" and she continues saying that "safety is created by caring" and that "No one is to be left alone".

No one? Really? I think we need to knock some sense out of her

 

She's arguing against herself! o.o

 

If she's arguing religious beliefs she should shut up and not say anything considering women talking over men (or in general) was a "sin" the same way homosexuality was.