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Figuring out my gender

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by HorizonXD, Mar 31, 2024.

  1. HorizonXD

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    So, I made a post here a few days ago concerning whether I was trans or not, and it gave me things to think about! Thanks to all of you who helped me, and now, onto the main thing. I want to look like a girl. I am male, and haven’t really thought about it until recently. And thinking about it, I would rather look like a woman. I don’t hate my body, but it’s not my favorite thing either. And I’m mostly okay with myself. I don’t care about my pronouns and other things, so I don’t know why I am feeling this way. So, I’ll ask the same question again. Am I trans?
     
  2. Ran

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    I would encourage you to explore this feeling more, because no one can give you for sure anwser. You need to be sure of it yourself. Once you figure it out, you stop asking wether you are trans. You just now. It's something that you can't really ignore.

    Will imagining yourself looking like a woman, genitals and everything bring you happiness or does the thought repulse you?

    Transitioning process can be very challenging and mean years of waiting depending on where you live, especially withouth any support.

    Would you consider surgeries or would you just transtion socially?

    Are you ready to go through this entire process? What would it change for you? Would it make your life better? Would it make you feel more comfortable within your body?

    Gender expression now is different from gender identity.

    Even men can wear female clothes, withouth going through the transition process. Clothing really has no gender. It's pieces of fabric. Do you just want to wear female clothing withouth judgement?

    There are different termins like:

    Transgender inclusive umbrella term
    Transsexual (outdated term. Means person have had surgeries)
    Transvestite or cross-dresser (transvetite is outdated term).
     
  3. HorizonXD

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    Thanks for responding! I don’t know about surgery (the very though scares me) but transitioning using hormones or something is what I’ve been thinking about, and I’ve got plenty of supportive friends and family with me. I guess I still don’t truly know what I want though, so…. I’ll keep thinking I guess.
     
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  4. Ran

    Ran
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    You will figure it out. Remember it's all a journey. :slight_smile:
     
  5. Littavhvert

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    If you experience gender dysphoria, that's a sign you are transgender. To be able to tell if you have gender dysphoria, you may talk to a doctor or gender therapist. Only a professional can diagnose someone with gender dysphoria. Anyone, cisgender and transgender people, can sometimes be uncomfortable with their bodies and appearance without it meaning it's gender dysphoria. A cis man may sometimes think "I wish I never became bald" and a cis woman may sometimes think "I wish I never got my periods". Being any sex can be difficult and it's normal to be frustrated.

    What differs gender dysphoria from regular frustrations is how much it impact your life. A cisgender person may occasionally be unhappy, but someone with gender dysphoria may constantly be uncomfortable and unhappy that it affects how they function in their daily lives. They are more likely to feel clinically depressed, get anxiety, not want to go outside, not wanting to look themselves in the mirror and feel like their bodies aren't their own. A transgender person with gender dysphoria may feel like they either lacks a gendered body part or that they have some that they aren't supposed to have. Gender dysphoria is a diagnosis that only specialists can diagnose. Gender dysphoria is different from regular unhappiness with your appearance how clinically depression differs from regular sadness.

    If you are trans or not depends on what you mean with looking like the opposite sex. If you likes wearing feminine fashion like dresses, skirts and makeup, it doesn't mean you are trans. Men can be feminine and women can be masculine without it meaning anything. Many cis people do break traditional gender norms and roles because they are socially constructed and doesn't fit everyone. Many gender norms are also outdated. Nowadays women can vote in Western countries, but in the 1800s they couldn't. If you mean wanting the opposite sex's body, it may be a sign of gender dysphoria. A trans woman wants a feminine face, breasts, a vulva and the full package. Regardless if a trans woman actually medically transitioning or not, she would feel major discomfort with having male parts. There are some feminine cis men who likes being clean shaven, having long hair, a smaller nose and a flamboyant or femboy aesthetic, but they are still comfortable with having male genitalia. Transitioning may be right for some people and it's not for everyone. Therefor, I recommends to ask a specialist.

    I'm a socially desister (female to male to female) and I'm happy to answer questions. : )
     
  6. Ran

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    Gender dysphoria is not a requirement for someone to be trans, neither is euphoria. The only thing that matters is that you feel something don't match up. Please don't spread misinformation that is just found from online. Not everything is correct there.
     
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  7. Littavhvert

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    In several countries gender dysphoria and euphoria is required to be diagnosed, and be allowed medically transitioning. The term is debated. I think gender dysphoria is a very huge spectrum meaning that although some individuals may experience crippling depression, anxiety and have difficulty functioning in the daily life, not everyone are equally affected or affected the same way. People can and do get diagnosed when they have a lot and a little dysphoria - allowing them to medically transitioning. If someone feels their bodies isn't right, it may be considered a form of dysphoria and a medical condition. If it wasn't a dysphoria, why would some people announce their new names/pronouns, medically transitioning or do some forms of changes? The trans healthcare is important because it's improving some people's lives.

    When talking from my experience I'm not taking something random from online. I knows many trans people in real life and I talks to transgender people frequently. Any "mismatch" that motivates them to do some forms of change may be on the gender dysphoria spectrum. Something was bothering them making them take the step. The term "gender dysphoria" is somewhat debatable, so some may view extreme suffering and low function in daily life as a requirement for it to qualify as dysphoria. Other may think anything that a person feels needs to be changed to improve their life quality also goes under the term. The term may be controversial and discussed - but it's not pure misinformation.
     
  8. Ran

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    But were not talking about medical transition right now or what is required in several countries. They only are figuring stuff out right now and this will confuse people that they absolutely must experience dysphoria.

    When I started out I felt no dysphoria, just euphoria and the dysphoria developed later.

    The mismatch I felt and dysphoria are definetly two different feelings.

    I'm also talking from my own experience.
     
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  9. Littavhvert

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    The terms are very confusing because they can be very broad. If a trans person never experiences either dysphoria or euphoria, which I thought was a requirement, what is being trans like?

    I'm a biological woman and I lives as a woman. Now I'm content just living as a woman and I'm fine being called "cis woman". I also felt disconnect to my body when growing up. To me it felt like I was supposed to be born without an uterus because I don't want to have children and pregnancy or periods. It made me feel so uncomfortable and at worst I wondered if life was worth continuing. Breasts seemed inconvenient and unnecessary. Especially when running. So I thought being born without the ability to develop them would also be nice. I questioned my gender identity and I wondered if transitioning was the right decision for me. I didn't met the diagnosis criteria in my country (yes, I have read them) and if I planned transitioning I wouldn't be allowed doing it medically because of the criteria that I read. I'm glad I didn't transitioning. Although I for a long time felt uncomfortable with womanhood and a lot of biological features, I wouldn't feel more comfortable with having a beard, balding or male parts either. Not wanting male part was something I figured out at a later point. My feelings were short lasting (13-16,5 y/o) and improved over time without medically or socially transitioning. If it was a 3rd option that was an improvement from the male and female body, I pick that one. But I can now live fine as a woman too.

    Hearing that trans people didn't need dysphoria from activists confused me when growing up and trying to figure it out. Especially when the government and medical system had different definitions. I got the impression of being transgender and feeling a disconnect from the body is different from how cisgender people feel it. If it's not dysphoria and euphoria, what is it? If you don't have dysphoria, is euphoria required or visa verca? Is it another term that I don't know about? What differs a trans person from a cisperson? Anyone can feel unhappiness about their gender, so what is the difference? Thanks for the explanation and patience.
     
  10. Ran

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    There is no biological. It's just men or women. This term just has bad taste and makes me feel like I'm not a real man and causes dysphoria. Please consider your audience.

    Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex. But, biological sex isn’t as straightforward as they likely think, and there is no one parameter that makes a person biologically male or female.

    The mismatch feels like you were born into the wrong body. The person who you are and the gender given to you at birth and everything else don't match up. This is also where the term wrong soul in the wrong body comes from.

    The term you are looking for is Gender incongruence - a person’s marked and persistent experience of an incompatibility between that person’s gender identity and the gender expected of them based on their birth-assigned sex.

    Gender dysphoria - discomfort or distress related to an incongruence between an individual's gender identity and the sex assigned at birth.

    The gender dysphoria is the discomfort you feel from your genitalia or skin. To me a big part from my dysphoria are my breasts, also my skin and sometimes voice and facial hair, what might seem odd, but it's because I don't look like man and having facial hair makes me feel uncomfortable, because there is judgement and against skin that feels feminine it seems unnatural (that part might be my inner transphobia).

    You may feel all of it or just dysphoria or just euphoria or the mismatch, but you need one of these. You don't have to experience it all to know for sure. Sometimes people just feel euphoria and it makes you feel intense happiness, when being preceived as an opposite gender. Dysphoria makes you uncomfortable. To me it's at the point where I feel it physically and it feels like my insides get crushed and skin gets tighter and tighter.
    Mismatch was pretty much that I didn't know how to be feminine, even though others teached me. I just knew I didn't belong within women.

    Every single transpersons journey is unique, so you can't just go with what is your own experience. There are many different experiences. It's not only about what the medical centers or hospitals use, because they use very often outdated terminology.
     
    #10 Ran, Apr 1, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2024
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  11. Littavhvert

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    I probably planned writing "biological male and female" in my comment, but wrote "biological man and woman" because English isn't my first language. So I messed up with my grammar. I'm sorry for the comment. I didn't meant to imply that trans people aren't real men and women. It's difficult discussing a topic when one doesn't know which terms are and aren't acceptable. If "biological X and Y" isn't acceptable to write, does "AFAB" and "AMAB" feel better? There are some physically differences between cisgender and transgender people, but that doesn't mean trans people are less. There are different types of men and women. We got trans men and cis men, and trans women and cis women. There's a reason the word "man" is in the word "trans man" and "cis man" because they both are men. The "cis" and "trans" is what type of men we're talking about. In some discussions, e.g. when discussing trans issues, maybe that may be relevant?

    Biological male and female does exist in biology, although intersex people also exist. The chromosomes, gametes, primary and secondary sex characteristics do exist and determine biological sex. Even if biology is more complex than first thought, talking about the two gametes isn't completely wrong. There are many people who are either biologically male or female. I can agree on that gender identity and biological sex doesn't always match - therefor we have cis, binary trans and non-binary trans people.

    Thanks for clarifying the terms "gender dysphoria", "euphoria" and "gender congruence". I didn't know that the terms that medical centers, hospitals and some governments uses are outdated. I thought doctors were supposed to stay updated within their own medical field they are working with. If one can't trust the doctors, it's really hard staying updated and know which professionals one can really trust. The human experience is very complex, so some concepts may be harder to understand than others. I think it's a possibility of the trans thing being more complex and nuanced than first thought, but that it's also possible for sexuality to be that. I still believe in that for some individuals the attraction may be split, and although the split attraction model may not be hundred percent accurate there may be some variations in the human sexuality.
     
  12. Ran

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    Yes let's just use AMAB and AFAB. It's much better.

    I learned some new things recently too. I had an eye opening conversation with my friend. Sometimes these things can be even translated differently depending on the country. Transgender is an inclusive umbrella term, so it can involve many different identities, where people don't necessarily transition at all, rather their gender is a state of mind.

    I can problably ask another more knowledgeable staff to tell you about the biological aspects of it all.

    I'm not disminishing the split attraction model. Whatever feels best for you, but you don't need to spread it around. People can very well google it themselves. If you leave a comment, then it needs to be relevant to the individuals persons case or if it does seem like your experience, then it's okay to share it or create your own thread. You don't need these full texts with explaining the terms, if you're not sure of them or their origin, because sometimes they can be very offensive.

    For the proper and updated terms I reccomend searh from lgbt+ centers websites or websites related to lgbt+ people, because we have to be more knowledgeable than doctors about it. At least it's the case in my country, since we don't have gender clinics. We even need to know what are the proper dosages and how our hormone levels are supposed to be, if we want results. We need to research about surgeries, many get them in other countries, because they don't trust the surgeons here to do it.

    I don't think we should hijack HorizonXD thread more with this, but you're welcome to discuss it more on my profile. :slight_smile:
     
  13. tallslenderguy

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    Not sure i have anything of value to add to this conversation... i really appreciate Rayland's thoughtful and insightful responses.
    i'd just add my voice here and encourage you to continue to look and listen and learn you. i don't think it's important, or even necessarily healthy, to feel a need or desire to reach a label conclusion.

    i get it, we do need words, labels, terms to communicate to others who and how we are. Those are a vital means of connecting with others. But believe connecting is an ongoing process, dynamic. Life is fluid, not static, and sometimes a label can freeze anothers (or even our own) understanding of who and how we are now.
     
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  14. Littavhvert

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    I didn't know the explanations is offensive. I didn't meant to do that. What confuses me is how differently the different countries define the terms. One term may mean something in the US or abroad, but in my country the terms are defined differently. For example the non-binary terms is used about which anatomy feels correct or which anatomy a person wants, in my country. It's not about gender roles itself. Other trans terms are also used differently - something that I wasn't aware of. The different attraction is accepted in my country too. Maybe I need to find information from international LGBT sites, because the locals one seems to differ more than I first thought? It's hard to navigate when the countries can't be agreeing on things - complex or simpler. I'm somewhat familier with the LGBT+ because I'm a LGBT+ myself and I do know tons of LGBT+ people. But they are from one country.
     
  15. Ran

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    I think I should create a complete list of all the terminology what I've learned so far. Many lists I've noticed aren't fully correct or it has terms missing.
     
  16. Mihael

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    Being transgender isn't only a medical phenomenon, it's also a cultural and interpersonal phenomenon. Like being gay is. Or like money - it's an entirely social agreement. Let's leave medical diagnoses to doctors and respect each other as individuals with different experiences. Also laypeople frequently don't know how to use diagnostic guides correctly - it comes from years of clinical experience. Just like you wouldn't be telling someone on the internet they for sure have epilepsy, clinical depression, diabetes and so on, let's leave the transition-related diagnostic criteria to physicians as well.

    Which countries? It's hard to discuss without specifics.

    https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/SOC V7_English.pdf

    Global experts seem quite clear on not equating "transgender" with "gender dysphoria" anywhere in the guidelines above. Gender dysphoria is a state in which transition is necessary to alleviate suffering.
     
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  17. Mihael

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    Are you being ironic here? I sure pick some of it up

    Can you quote the actual sources you're referring to? Who said that and what exactly did they say? You know, I know quite a few doctors and I highly doubt what you're presenting is their consensus, as you seem to be presenting it, as some "biological, medical truth".

    Also, the views you're presenting are called "transmedicalism" and it's transphobic.
     
  18. Ran

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    I said some of the information used are outdated by medical centers and hospitals and I think this is what they vent off from, but my point was that gender dysphoria is required to be a diagnosis, but it's false, because gender dysphoria diagnosis isn't an only way to know if someone is trans.

    https://www.statnews.com/2022/03/11...r-dysphoria-diagnosis-should-not-be-required/
     
  19. Mihael

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    But made sure to pick up this exact detail and empasise it :slight_smile:
     
  20. Mihael

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    Exactly, this is why we as random people on the internet shouldn't diagnose anyone. One way or the other. Laypeople lack the expertise to correctly apply diagnostic guides.

    Transgender = identifying with a gender different than assigned at birth.
    https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender-people-gender-identity-gender-expression

    "Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth. Gender identity refers to a person’s internal sense of being male, female or something else; gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics. “Trans” is sometimes used as shorthand for “transgender.” While transgender is generally a good term to use, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-nonconforming will identify as a transgender person. The ways that transgender people are talked about in popular culture, academia and science are constantly changing, particularly as individuals’ awareness, knowledge and openness about transgender people and their experiences grow."
     
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