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Feeling completely unhinged right now.

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Dinah, May 7, 2014.

  1. Dinah

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    So I went and talked to my therapist last night. I started off by telling him that I've been exploring these feeling of gender confusion. It went pretty much how I expected it would go. He immediately and quickly turned the conversation away from any such thoughts and back to his opinion that what I'm dealing with is a severe depression.

    I told him that I wasn't sure what I was feeling. That I don't want to buy into this wholesale but neither do I want to discount the possibility that this is something. He suggested medication (of course) and possibly some sort of disability compensation.

    I'm angry. Not because he said such things. Before I began consulting with him, I did look up another therapist who according to trans-friendly websites is aware of and deals with LGBT issues. I chose not to go to her, because I didn't want a therapist who I felt might try pandering to potentially false feelings.

    I'm angry and I don't know why exactly. I've done this depression/bipolar/ADD/etc. diagnosis dance all my life. I don't feel like it has ever helped me in the past to "just take some uppers/downers/false happiness pills" and carry on.

    I'm angry because I don't know how I expected it to go any differently this time. Has all this forum trolling merely been me drinking the trans koolaid? Do I really FEEL trans, or do I just WANT to feel trans??

    I'm angry because am I just looking for an excuse to uproot my marriage to my wife that has been simply okay in the best of times and extremely troublesome elsewhile??

    I'm angry because can it really just be so simple as me being depressed?? I already knew that I was depressed, but can that really be the problem in and of itself?? I'm angry because I don't know what to believe or what I want to believe.

    I'm angry because being happy has always been some fanciful thing that has ALWAYS been just out of my reach. Now facing the possibility that I could actually reach out and take it, it scares me. I've only EVER known misery, heartache, pain, anger, bitterness. I've become addicted to those negative feelings.

    I'm angry because now I'm responsible for my own emotional well-being and my subsequent behavior. Now I can't blame someone or something else.

    I'm angry because what if medication doesn't solve anything?? Then what?? Am I just supposed to go back to "misery, heartache, pain, anger, bitterness"???

    I'm angry because at least being angry I FEEL SOMETHING, ANYTHING......
     
    #21 Dinah, May 14, 2014
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  2. Dinah

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    I feel like I need to post this as a disclaimer to anyone who might take great offense at my previous post.

    All the things I said above are not intended to single out or invalidate anyone else's (specifically trans individuals) experiences. My latest therapy session has simply left me feeling even more uncertain of everything I'm feeling, more questions, more doubts, more uncertainty. I'm feeling extremely lost and confused right now.

    To those of you (again, specifically trans individuals) who know who you are or are still yet discovering yourselves, I will NEVER (intentionally) say anything hateful or judgmental TO you or ABOUT you. Your identity, your reality is yours and yours ALONE to discover.
     
  3. anonym

    anonym Guest

    I just want to say, it's natural to have doubts, to go back and forth, to think 'oh I'm bi-gender, no wait a minute, I'm transsexual' so don't worry about the validity of your identity. Many of us have posted about trans doubts or not feeling we are trans enough. I'm not saying you are or aren't trans. I'm just trying to put your mind at ease. Don't feel bad for not being sure about anything right now if you're not. :slight_smile:

    The thing about depression is pills can help but ultimately, the don't fix the problem. Take me for example. I had NO IDEA I was trans and then at age 23, I was diagnosed with depression, though to be honest I had been depressed for years and years. I just didn't know it. So I started therapy trying to fix the problem which was when I started unpicking all of my past and discovering feelings I never knew I had. That was when I realised I was trans. Medication is ok but it is not going to mask over these feelings you have about your gender. Neither is avoiding the issue in therapy. These feeling are there and you've acknowledged that they are there. Scary as it may be, you now need to do something with these feelings and talk to a therapist or trusted friend/family member.

    I can totally relate to your fears about happiness. That is something I'm facing right now and you're right, the idea of being happy when you've been unhappy most of your life is TERRIFYING. As is taking responsibility for your own emotions and behaviour. I don't know what I can say to help you with this one because I don't know what the answer is. I have yet to figure it out.
     
  4. BookDragon

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    To be fair to your therapist you came to him with a thought you weren't sure about and he didn't bit into it...actually that is probably a good thing...don't get me wrong it should be explored but the last thing you need right now is for your therapist to go "Ooh, not seen that before, could be fun" and start digging deeper than you need for things that might not be there.

    Let me ask you something.

    You've been, in your own words, trolling forums and reading about trans stuff. Does it seem fun to you? Or exciting or entertaining? Does it seem like a catch all problem solver?

    I'm guessing it doesn't, because based on your previous posts you actually HAVE a brain in your head and appear to be pretty good at using it. I don't think you look at those of us who KNOW we are trans and think "They've got a pretty easy life".

    So with the best will in the world, do you really think you are using being trans as a 'get out of marriage free' card or as a way of avoiding depression? Or is it not more likely that there is SOME real feeling there that you don't fully understand?
     
  5. Dinah

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    See, the thing is, growing up I was always extremely sheltered and made to feel as though thinking for myself was inherently wrong, that I just need to stay in line, let others tell me what and how to think, keep my head down, do as your told, get religion and it will solve everything, "don't rock the boat". Now that I'm on my own, I can't even trust myself, because 'are these really my feelings or are they just implanted suggestions' from X, Y, or Z source.

    Even at my age, am I still just doing and thinking and feeling what I'm told to?

    ---------- Post added 14th May 2014 at 09:38 AM ----------

    Case in point, as a young 'christian' child, in an attempt to just find 'peaceful coexistence' in a school full of hateful mean-spirited kids, I dabbled in Wicca. My parents found out about it, found out that I had obtained my 'materials' from my best friend, and they flew off the handle, prohibited me from ever seeing him again and packed me off to a very churchy christian live-in private school, where I was made to feel even more criminal for just trying to fit in and be accepted.

    ---------- Post added 14th May 2014 at 09:48 AM ----------

    which is where, ironically I got my first and only taste of wearing a girl's clothing
     
    #25 Dinah, May 14, 2014
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  6. Dinah

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    There was a short story I read in school a long time ago, I can't remember what it was called or who wrote it, but basically there was a guy travelling on the road and tired as he was decided to lay down on the side of the road for a nap, he takes off his shoes and points them in the direction he's headed, so that when he wakes up he'll know which way to continue down. So he goes to sleep, and someone comes along, sees what he's done, and points his shoes in the opposite direction. He wakes up and believing that his shoes are still pointed the correct way, he goes back the way he came believing his course to be true and never realizing the deception that has taken place.

    This is me.
     
    #26 Dinah, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  7. anonym

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    Then now it's time you start to find your own voice. What is it telling you? It can be hard to find it at first when you've lived your life doing what other people expect of you and conforming to society's expectations and while it may be absolutely terrifying, it is also extremely liberating.

    Spend some time asking yourself who you want to be and what you wish to do in your life.

    I know it sounds selfish and in a way it is, but what I realised was while living my life as female, I wasn't doing it for me. I was doing it for the benefit of everyone else. You need to live your life for you as whoever it is you feel yourself to be.
     
  8. BookDragon

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    OK so don't trust your instincts. In fact I strongly recommend not throwing yourself into things just because you feel it.

    Let's use your example of Wicca. So for whatever reason you decided to 'dabble'. Note by your own admission you just experimented with something different. At no point did you say "I converted to Wicca" or "I became a druid" or anything else, and that is EXACTLY what you need to be doing here.

    Nobody is going to force you, and I assure you nobody wants you to sit there and say "I get the feeling I might be a woman, so I'm going to go ahead and be one". That would be insane. There are lots of really REALLY difficult obstacles that this path throws at you and you won't get over them if you're not confident it's right for you.

    That's why you experiment and you explore those feelings. You do things that seem right to you and you see how they feel. You try the things that you think will make you happy. You forget everyone else completely.

    The first time I wore womens underwear was crazy. You know why? Because aside from being comfortable it didn't mean do anything to me. I was expecting to be aroused or something so I could call it a fetish and move on, but I wasn't. Then I wondered if I should feel really happy, but I didn't. But I also didn't feel WRONG.

    I took them off, washed them and hid them for a few weeks. Then I wore them again for a whole day. That second day I went to the toilet. I was sat there looking at this fabric around my ankles and THEN I felt sad. I wondered why the HELL I hadn't done this before.

    That was my first real clue that I was on to something. I felt good about that because I was doing it for ME and ONLY for me.

    You know what happened next?

    I went to work the next day in my normal mens clothes. I sat in the mens toilet and I beat the living shit out of my legs. I started to think what other people would say. Would they let me work with kids if they knew about that? THEN I started to doubt again. It scared the hell out of me.

    The reason I'm telling you this is because if I'd decided while I was happy that I am DEFINITELY a woman, based on that feeling alone, I am fairly confident what came next would have killed me. I am almost certain if I'd decided at that point that I had to go through everything based on that feeling AND THAT FEELING ALONE that I would have killed myself because of how bad I felt afterwards.

    But I didn't. I explored it. It took months. Trying something one day then freaking out for a week and trying something else.

    After several months I realised something. I had done all these different things and I felt good about all of them. Other peoples reactions scared me, but on my own they made me feel good. Eventually I found myself able to think that I'm a woman. It took even longer to be able to say "I'm transgender" out loud.

    My point it, you need to stop focussing on RIGHT NOW and on what other people will think. Explore who you are and do it FOR YOU.
     
  9. Dinah

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    Thank you all for the kind words and helpful advice. Obviously there are many questions (including those up there ^^^^) I need to find the answers for and can't answer right away.
     
  10. Emma_K

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    I have to agree with Holly on this, try yourself on, give yourself a chance. whether you buy some clothes and/or a wig online, paint your nails, or try your hand at make-up (even if you immediately take it off). Perhaps the best way to find yourself is to try yourself on, and see, actually see, if that feels more like you.

    Additionally, I can completely relate to you experience, as you said,
    I was in a very similar place about 5 months ago. I thought I finally had my life together, I was going head first into my junior year in high school, spending every waking minute on school, not leaving any opportunity to feel anything, and the instant that ANY emotion tried to emerge, I would immediately detach from it. I felt completely emotionless, I just didn't feel anymore.

    Then, around mid December, everything rushed back. I felt so lost. So disgusted with myself. So sad. So empty. And what did i do? I ran. I tried to escape these feelings, trying desperately to reclaim my seemingly safe emotionless state, and in the process I drove myself into the ground.

    It wasn't until March that I gave myself a chance, but the more that I tried myself on, the more sure, the more confident that I felt within myself, and it was beautiful.

    About 5 weeks ago, I finally built up the courage to tell my therapist, (and while it is none of my business, I would consider looking for an LGBT friendly therapist who will help you figure yourself out, rather than shoving you into a predefined box). But in any case, my therapist has been key to helping me articulate my feelings, which I was so detached from not long ago, and helped me definitively figure out who I am.

    And as I felt more at home within myself, I started to come out to a few people, first my best friend, then my brother (we are very close) then my parents, and so on.

    From my experience, I would say that one of the most difficult parts is getting the ball rolling, and, once it gets going there may be some bumps down the hill, but as rolls down the metaphorical hill of life, you will be closer to you, the real you, whether that is cisgender, transgender, or somewhere in between.

    Ultimately, what really matters is that you are happy with yourself, in whatever you endeavors are, and people will either be good, perhaps even help you become who you are, and a few people may even want to keep you from being happy with yourself, but then you will know who are really your friends, who really cares about YOU, not just how you look, but the person beneath.

    -Emma
     
  11. Dinah

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    Aside from experimenting with women's clothes/makeup etc. are there any other ways that you might have considered, to try and sort out your feelings?

    The reason I'm asking this is because 1) My wife is substantially smaller than me, naturally, and 2) I can't afford to go picking through the women's clothing sections, and honestly I'd be afraid of someone seeing me do such a thing. I live in a relatively small town and there are people everywhere, who either know me personally or know my family or both.
     
  12. BookDragon

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    I could recommend all sorts of things but I won't. Reason being is that I want you to be able to explore YOU not somebody else.

    So what sort of things would you LIKE to try? Is there anything feminine that appeals to you?

    Let's say, for example, you wanted to wear women's underwear.

    You can either think about why you want to try it. What is it about doing this that appeals to you? How do you feel about the idea? Does it feel strange? Is that good or bad? Does it come with any form of sexual feelings? Does that bother you?

    Or you can think of ways you can actually do it. Find it cheap online. Ebay, big shops whatever. Buy it cheap, try it out. Hide it, throw it away, whatever you need to do.

    Or both.
     
  13. Dinah

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    I'm posting this here so as to avoid derailing another thread and it seemed applicable to my personal /rant thread anyhow.

    Perhaps this is why I feel so intimately connected to all things of a dualistic nature. Pisces being the most dualistic type of person already, factor in a pairing of aqua-pisces, more duality, male body/female mind, bipolar disorder, married to a pisces, pisces brother, and I could go on and on no doubt, but I'm sure you get my point. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

    Which takes me back to square one. Pisces being a sort of social chameleon, taking on the social characteristics of those they encounter, and often losing themselves in the process.
     
    #33 Dinah, May 16, 2014
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  14. Dinah

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    I need some of this right about now.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3o4QMIISZg[/yt]

    :confused::tantrum::icon_sad::bang::icon_redf :help: :tears::***:
     
  15. Dinah

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    In much deep thought about how and what I've been feeling, I realized something (crucial or trivial) about my attempt to find myself.

    In thinking over all of this, part of me wants to be judged as just being some fraud or fake, so that I can apologize, feel remorseful for the pain and insult I may cause against the trans community and then move on (just go back to the man camp and shut my mouth).
    While another part of me wants this to be real, to be the answer to all my life's problems, I don't mean I hope that being trans would solve ANY of my problems, that would be grieviously naive of me to think that way. What I mean is that I hope that I might at last be able to tangibly put my finger on the problem and say "This is it, this has always been the root cause of EVERYTHING wrong with me, now where do I go from here?"
     
    #35 Dinah, May 19, 2014
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  16. BookDragon

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    Start by realising that knowing the cause of your problems doesn't fix anything and that the chances of every problem you have being caused by one thing, no matter how massive, are negligible.

    If you are looking for a 'cause' ask yourself WHY. You want something to blame, fine, but what difference does it make? Does being able to say "I'm this way because of this" make you feel any better?

    More importantly does it make YOU any better?

    Think about it. There are lots of problems I can say my gender identity appears to have had a hand in:

    Lack of confidence, low self-esteem, social withdrawal, anger issues. All sorts of things.

    Now those things are pretty big, so let's make it more specific. Until this year I have been TERRIFIED of using the phone. Doesn't matter who I just hated doing it. Sometimes it's a confidence thing, other times its fear of having to open up to people about things.

    So now we have specifics.

    "I could not use the phone because of problems stemming from my gender identity"

    Now how does that help me? If I tell someone, sorry, can't use the phone, I'm trans you see! Will they understand? If last year I had said "Mum, make my doctors appointments for me, I'm to anxious due to my internal struggle with gender identity!"

    What do you do with that? Having something to blame might point me in the direction of something to try and fix, but it doesn't do anything to make my life easier.

    So unless you plan on doing something about it, stop looking for causes and for blame.

    Please note a distinction between two phrases.

    "Living as a woman" and "Living authentically as myself".

    To most people, I am trying (and probably failing) at living as a woman. My mum keeps telling me to get my eyebrows done so they look feminine. My brother asked me if I was planning to get into 'the whole make-up thing'.

    To me, I am living authentically as myself. There is a massive difference here. Everything I do is something a woman would do by nature of the fact that I'm doing it and I'm a woman. I don't need or want to wear make-up, or get my eye-brows done or wear high heels. I don't want to, I don't need to, and I won't. Other people may want to and more power to them. They live as themselves, and I live as me.

    A lot of my confidence issues are fading the longer I live this way. They aren't fixed because I realised "I'm trans" and 'made the switch'. Finding out I'm a woman didn't fix those problems.

    You need to stop thinking in terms of trans and not trans or anything. Think about YOU. What do YOU need to do to make yourself comfortable. Forget about what it makes you. No matter WHAT you come up with, the only thing it 'makes' you is YOU. Wearing dresses won't make you trans any more than eating noodles will make you Chinese.

    If you are trans, fine, work with that, but stop thinking of that as the goal. The goal isn't 'to be male or female' the goal is to be you.
     
  17. Dinah

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    I made a bit of an overstatement with the ^comments above, and I'm sensing a bit of frustration from you, which is fine, I can understand that, because I am kinda staggering back and forth here. Furthermore, I AM thinking heavily about everything that you and the others in this thread have mentioned, I started this thread as a sort of talking to myself out loud with the added benefit of getting feedback from other people.

    This ^ is the ALL and EVERYTHING I was referring to, despite my poor choice of words.

    If in the course of all the things I've said in this thread, I've rubbed you the wrong way, know that that was never my intention. All of this is me TRYING to process my (and your) thoughts and feelings in a way that I can come back to later and reflect on.

    I feel that before I can truly find myself, acceptance must come first, and that is not going to come easy (for me), nor do I think that it should come easy. If it were so easy, then this would all indeed just be a sick, twisted game to play at for a while, and all of you would just be cannon fodder for that purpose. If this were all just some sick and twisted game for my own pleasure, that would put me damn close to the top of the list of the worst type of human scum there is. End of story.

    http://emptyclosets.com/forum/gender-identity-expression/133045-do-i-pass-thread-44.html

    I can't stress ^ this enough. I have seen much hatred in my life, and I've been guilty of some hateful attitudes and behavior myself. Who I am (morally) is a reflection upon the type of person I DO NOT want to become.

    All the things you've said or will say, I can only express my gratitude for that.

    ---------- Post added 19th May 2014 at 10:15 AM ----------

    My fears and doubts are compounded by the fact that I'm married and I live the way I do. If modifying my gender identity (to any degree) is something that I need to do, the hard fact is that it will destroy everything I've become, and everything that those close to me think of me. I can't be ignorant of that and act like it won't.

    ---------- Post added 19th May 2014 at 10:18 AM ----------

    Husband, Uncle (2 times over), Godfather, FREEMASON (read: men's fraternity), brother, son, nephew, grandson and on and on. All of that and more, in one moment, would be severed, quite catastrophically.
     
    #37 Dinah, May 19, 2014
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  18. BookDragon

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    I'm sensing a bit of frustration from you

    If that is how it's coming across, all I can do is apologise, as it certainly is not intentional.

    If there is any frustration being unknowingly vented into my responses, I want to assure you it will be aimed at myself, and not at you.

    The things you are going through are things I understand all to well, and it's hard to see someone else go through it all when you can see them falling into all the traps I fell into myself.

    You've not rubbed me the wrong way, and I'm sorry if it has come across that way.

    I feel that before I can truly find myself, acceptance must come first, and that is not going to come easy (for me), nor do I think that it should come easy

    The problem I find with this is that I find myself asking "acceptance of what?"

    Without self exploration and 'finding yourself', what do you have to accept?

    You absolutely need to accept yourself before you do anything life changing, or make any big decisions, but I don't see how it is possible to 'accept' that which you don't know and can't know.

    If we expand the thought, you have 2 very obvious possibilities. I am trans, or I am not trans. Those are two of infinite possible answers to the question "who or what am I?"

    If you accept "I am not trans" your exploration is over.

    If you accept "I am trans" that is a massive step. A massive step that might not even be correct.

    Perhaps you could explain this to me?

    My fears and doubts are compounded by the fact that I'm married and I live the way I do. If modifying my gender identity (to any degree) is something that I need to do, the hard fact is that it will destroy everything I've become, and everything that those close to me think of me. I can't be ignorant of that and act like it won't.

    I don't want you or anyone else to act like it won't cause problems, you would be a fool to imagine that something like this would happen without consequence. But again, I am left with a burning thought in my head that also cannot be escaped.

    Your circumstances don't change WHO YOU ARE.

    You can choose not to act on the things you figure out and that is entirely up to you, but it won't change who you are and how you feel inside.

    I don't want you to sit there and pretend that your marriage and the rest of your life is something worthless that you can just throw away on a whim, that is the last thing I want. What I DO want though, it to make sure you don't try and use those things as a way of stopping you discovering what you need to be happy.

    Husband, Uncle (2 times over), Godfather, FREEMASON (read: men's fraternity), brother, son, nephew, grandson and on and on. All of that and more, in one moment, would be severed, quite catastrophically.

    True, and this is one of the hardest things to deal with, if for no other reason than other people love to point it at you.

    They will tell you what they have LOST. What YOU have TAKEN from them. They will tell you and you will tell yourself.

    Nobody focus on what they've gained. Nobody cares that you are still there.

    People don't want to hear that they've gained a daughter, a sister, an aunt...whatever, because they have established memories and they don't want it to change.

    People don't pay attention to the fact that YOU are still there. YOU the person they love is still very much there, trying desperately to fill a hole other people put there. You tell yourself you can't do it.

    You start to feel like you took yourself out of it voluntarily. You changed. They didn't. YOU'RE the problem, and it's a complete load of crap. This is your social unit:

    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Then you come out as whatever you happen to be, you feel like you removed yourself and everyone is happy to confirm that. Now it looks like this:

    THEM YOU
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXX XXXXXX
    XXXXX XXXXXX
    XXXXX XXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX XX

    You still fit right now. But let's say you start to transition. To live how you feel you should. Yeah, you'll change a little, everyone changes over time so now you look like this:

    XXX
    XX
    X

    You won't fit in that hole any more, and everyone will tell you it's your fault. They ignore that if they changed a little too, they could let you back in and everyone would be happy. But people don't like change. You changed, so it's your problem. Why should WE do anything to change?

    Now they focus on this gap. This gap where a son once was. They could fill it, with you, but they won't. You changed, why should they accommodate.

    So instead, they make other changes. They decide you did it because you are cruel, or perverse, insane or confused. When they can't change you back they put up barriers. If you don't change, there is no place for you. Now your unit looks like this

    XXXXXXXXXXX
    X XXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXX XXXXX
    XXXXX XX XX
    XXXXX XXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
    XXXXX XXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Gaps start to form in places there were none. Of course this is all YOUR fault because YOU changed. How DARE you changed. Look how much you've ruined. Look at how many lives you selfishly destroyed. How many relationships you broke.

    Wouldn't it have been easier if you've just died?! (That was my mums logic incidentally. It would have been MUCH easier if I'd died).

    They completely ignore the fact that if they'd worked on accepting you for who you are and who you will become, their unit would be complete.

    I'm not so naive as to think ALL relationships are fixable. It will be HELL on a marriage, you don't just 'try to accept it' and suddenly your wife is a lesbian. It doesn't work that way. Some relationships will change, not always in ways we want them to. But you CAN NOT sit there and tell yourself that it is your job and ONLY YOUR JOB to keep these things together.

    Everyone has a responsibility towards love an acceptance. Everyone has to accommodate their loved ones.

    What you decide to do is completely up to you, just don't let yourself think that if things go bad, you are the only person to blame.
     
  19. Dinah

    Full Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Third star to the right & straight on til morning.
    Chalk it up to me over-analyzing. (*hug*)
     
  20. BookDragon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
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    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    You're sounding more like me by the minute :slight_smile: (*hug*)