I had a good discussion last night with a friend regarding TV shows, and a lot of points were brought up and bounced around. I've been personally trying to piece together something over the last few years, and my initial idea was to test it as a webcomic first before working out the kinks. The idea centered around intersectionality and focused on some groups that don't really get good representation in media. I wanted to set it in a fictional town in Ohio to draw out certain lines clearer, and show to others what's really going on. My friend, who is far more left than I am, argued that it wouldn't be a good idea to do that, expressing the potential for it to be too preachy, and it would turn people away rather than teach them something. To him, a completely different setting would be more appropriate, and give people something more to immerse in, and use the ideas and messages in hidden things. My own worry is that it would come off as an excuse to not actually talk about the issues raised, and it would seem that I'm trying to escape from them as well by not directly addressing them as they are known. I'm also a bit worried that it might come off as a rehash of Steven Universe. So, I want to open this up to you guys. What are your thoughts? If there was a show that represented you in any way, would you want it to be more realistic, more fictional, something to escape in yourself? What is your ideal way of being represented? Don't worry if you have only 3 words to say. Chances are, it will help a lot.
Representing minority groups can get preachy if you're not careful, but I don't feel like this has anything to do with the actual setting. It's related to the way it's written. If I wanted to be represented, I wouldn't care if the setting was realistic fiction or a fantasy world...but I do care about how It's portrayed. I do feel that it gets preachy when you focus too much on the political side of minority groups. Take LGBT for example. When I look at a lot of LGBT stories, they push political views and how people should feel about homosexuality down the throat's of the audience, and this for me is a huge turn-off. I want to feel like a normal person and see gay people who feel like any other couple in media. That said you can still add political issues (like coming out, homophobic parents, same sex marriage rights) as it is a bit unrealistic to leave them out entirely. But the problem is when the character becomes a mouthpiece to push your own views or agenda in the story. Every person is different and has a different experience, so I do not want to hear the author's feelings through the main character. That is what articles are for. Fiction is about learning to write viewpoints different than your own, even if the character is similar to you. It's not just about LGBT either. I don't know much about racism, being white myself, but I could speak the same about mental illness and disability. The way people portray these things can get too political and very often misses the point of how a real person feels about his or her experience.
Sad that its called Political issue, when its the dignity to exist for another human being. Its just so wrong, that its called politics, as if nature was thrown out and all lgbt folks can choose to be str8t, so its the same as discussing how porn or prostitution can be legalised or made illegal.
No being LGBT alone is not political. But LGBT can be MADE political. There is a huge difference, and that's why I'm complaining about it. I don't WANT my sexuality to be seen as political or written as political. I want it to be written as a normal every day thing. I am just a normal person who wants to be treated as normal and not an "other". The biggest mistake is assuming all LGBT people care about the same things, when we do not. It's not necessarily that I'm against the political side, though, It's that I personally don't care. If you want to represent a LGBT person, you need to represent people. Forcing us all into one box does not make me feel represented at all, it makes me feel ignored and disrespected as those are not my views. There is a reason I prefer hetero media- and It's not because I prefer hetero couples over same sex ones. It's because heterosexuals get more variety and are written with different views, opinions, lifestories, etc while same-sex ones are all shoved in a box. I have never related to same sex "representation" because I don't belong in a rigid box and do not fit the stereotype of what a gay person is "supposed" to be.
Yes and thats why it should be just legally interpreted by every supreme court, that the constitution is inclusive of all its citizens and all benefits accorded to them equally, regardless of who they are. Problem is religious perceptions from centuries gone, still shape politics today, thus drag even nature topics, to politics. Always, one has to fight for a seat at the table, so as to gain equal treatment and fairness as whoever formed the law centuries gone, had the intention of locking out others. Politics equally is what you do always, when you form proffesional groups,associations etc Those are political in nature, for its where voices join together to push for an agenda or give directions to issues. Politics is meant to be progressive and through time, history has shown even with hiccups, here and there, progressiveness always wins, through voices. I have no idea what you mean by stereotype of gay, at the end of the day its whoever you end up loving, Your able to gain equal benefits, no prejudice, no mistreatment or discrimination. Its it being as normal as nature intended, not what abrahamic religions intended, when locking out groups.
The problem is though, that politically, I already have rights. I can legally get married, I can be out and not lose my job, I am not discriminated against in any way. I realize that this is very new and that we made strides to get this, but at this point, I would rather read about gay people happily in love than read about more political issues. I'm happy for you if you want to read about politics in fiction, but I am tired of it and I want something I can actually relate to. That being said, being disabled has been worse for be than being gay. Dealing with ableism has been worse than homophobia. Because of my disability I have- People wanting me to die/telling me I was better off aborted, Not being able to accomplish things that people years younger than me already have, making it impossible to find love (much bigger barrier here than being gay), being discriminated against in the work force, losing human and legal rights, etc. This has all happened to me. It's way harder for me to be disabled than to be gay, but I also don't want to read about disability politics either. My disability is not the whole of my entire character and I don't want it to define me. And when people try to represent it on the political side, they never represent my experience, so I feel like my voice is not heard anyway. Everyone has a different experience.
First of all, your beautiful regardless of what those ignorant fools said. I actually agree with you on the disability bit, its a terrible experience, especially when the standards of beauty are set in society and it negates so many, including disabled people. Whats worse is in the gay community, if you arent the green eyed, blue eyed 6ft model walking guy with abs, the community will painfully reject you. If i may ask, what disability do you have?
Thanks for the response, Creativemind. I do want to ask that this thread please not be derailed into a personal discussion, unless it's a response to my question: What kind of story would you want to represent you, and how would you want it done? I mean you, as in the reader. Please don't think that you have to ignore this question to satisfy others. This forum has people of all different kinds of backgrounds, so I want as much feedback as possible.
I personally prefer my representation in a fantasy setting but not an escapist one. So basically realistic fantasy. I think realism is important to properly show the issues and the specific problems that arise from them. I prefer the fantasy setting bevause it is easier to formulate a general message that can be applied to more than one specific real life issue. It also makes it easier to avoid misrepresenting or offending real minor and majorities, additionally it gives the writer more freedom to explore the topics he wants explored. Aside from that,I think that it is important to portray an issue from as many perspectives as possible to show it in the most accurate manner and avoid being preachy. This does, for me, include representing opinions that one does not agree with but that are still valid and important.
Forgot to reply to this. First of all, when I say I don't like super political stuff, I don't mean you can't add certain legal issues, but just don't go overboard with it. The first example that comes to mind is the Assigned male webcomic. I would have been interested in reading about trans characters and issues, but eventually I just got turned off by how preachy it got and how much the MC was just a mouthpiece for the author's views. So as long as it doesn't go overboard like that, you can easily write about minority issues. For specific issues, I cannot speak for ethnicity as I am white, but I can speak for other minority groups: For LGBT (lesbians specifically): - Less sex scenes. To clarify, I'm not against gay people having sex. However, I am a bit bothered that I have found an equal amount of heterosexual books for adults that both include sex scenes and don't have them at all, yet all the LGBT books I read are oversexualized. Some of us are less sexual and/or care more about other aspects so it's hard to feel represented here. - Or if there has to be a sex scene, I would like to see it done in a more conservative way. I am not against casual sex or pure lust, but I have always been more conservative with wanting to wait and treating sex like an intimate encounter over a dirty one. A lot of LGBT books are lusty so I do not relate to them. I prefer romantic heterosexual books because of it. - Do not make a lesbian character sleep with a man (unless she is questioning) like most tropes do. - Gay people are still a minority, so I do not care for people making the entire cast gay. It's still important to have straight voices as it shows what progress we do or don't need. For disability/mental illness: - I get tired when people write about autism and only make the characters have aspergers (or stereotypical aspergers). Some people have more moderate functioning autism and some people have severe autism where they are adults still in diapers/can't talk. People think it is offensive to write about this, but imo, It's more offensive to deny the existence of these people. - I am tired of reading about mentally ill people (bipolar, schizophrenic, etc) who are all violent or rapists. It can happen, but it doesn't represent these people.
I think one of the problems with portraying mental illness is that people either condemn or romanticise it. Neither is a good or even helpful representation because it conveys a wrong image of the people portrayed. Movies like "Adam" make me angry because they portray the problems autistic people have with communication as something cute without any regards to the very real issues that come with being unable to communicate on the same level as everyone else. My best friend's brother has autism and can't speak. Due to this it took doctors several years to figure out that he had severe migraine and was in a lot of pain. People like him are never portrayed by the media, a lot of people might not even know that autism can be this way. So I must say that I definitly agree with you. The media should stop being afraid of offending people and start portraying reality. Though the question of wether the mainstream audience wants to see this reality is another matter entirely.
I am in the process of writing a book about mental illness. The main character has DID (multiple personality), and so far it has been positively received by real people of this illness. This is because I do research and try to portray something as realistic as possible. Actually, my biggest inspiration for this book came from the actual media portrayal of DID- it is horrendous and either makes these people look like violent/crazy maniacs (the reality is they are a bigger danger to themselves than to other people) or the media making it seem like it is very cool and something everyone would want to have (nope, it can be horrific for the sufferers). I am replying to this with this information because I hope it helps the OP as well. My advice to anyone looking to write is 1) do your research, 2) if you write about mental illness, don't confuse it with personality or make it define the whole character. If the character's personality would be lost without the illness, then you went wrong somewhere in development. Actually, the same is true for ethnicity and sexuality too. Even if it's an important part of us, not everyone in the community is the same.
I think you should use whatever setting suits you best. If you find it easier to tell a story set in a world similar to your own, then do that. If you find it easier to tell a story set in another world, do that. I have a personal preference to fantasy, but if the story has elements I can relate to, then it doesn't matter what world its set in.
Great responses! Thanks. I really like where this thread has gone. So then, let me go back to square 1 for a bit to show you my original idea. There are 7 characters. Each character is unique to each other, but at least two of them share a particular issue. Two of them are gender nonconforming (and one of them may or may not be a lesbian. Not entirely sure how the arc will go in detail, right now). Four of them deal with racism (albeit some different forms), two of them being brother and sister. Three of them deal with their own body issues, but two of them are more highlighted. And two of them deal with sexuality. This all takes place in a fictional town in Ohio, much of it in a High school. I want to emphasize here that each of their own issues defines their *arc* rather than their character. For example, let me take the siblings. They both share their similarities and their differences. They both deal with the realities of being black in America, they both deal with hereditary weight (though only one of them has a more serious issue, which I won't dive into because of spoilers), and they're also both very involved with extracurricular school activities. They're also both wicked smart. Oh yeah, and they also have nicknames that their white friends gave them. But only one of them actually likes said nickname. Their own takes on racism itself are different to one another. One of them is proud to be black, the other is ashamed. They both have a differing opinion on how it should be handled, and it gets to the point where one of them begins to plot something and it has to take the other one to stop it before it gets out of hand. But ultimately, if you ask the question "Who is this character?" You'll know that she's the super-chill jazz band girl who pretty much everyone likes. This kind of thing is something I want to be applicable to the entire story, should it still be set in Ohio. Ideally, I'd still like it to address issues, but still be a fun enough show to watch. I've been doing academic research and gathering opinions on this though, and chances are that might not happen, and I'm looking for other potential ways for this to go. I don't want to completely divorce from the idea of showing something that we know more honestly. I know High School animated shows can work, because I've seen Daria and I've seen As Told By Ginger, and I love both those shows. But I do still want to know if something like this can be done without even us going "Eeehhh, might not want to see it"
Oh also (can't edit, now...) why would I have a confirmed lesbian sleeping with a guy? That makes absolutely no sense.
If you're pro-LGBT you probably wouldn't, but 99% of lesbians in media do this to the point it's become a trope. Real lesbians have gotten sick of seeing lesbian characters because of it.
