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Embracing the "femme"

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by PatrickUK, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. PatrickUK

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    Quite a moving item from HuffPost.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...mme-gay-community_us_5b6851aae4b0b15abaa54829

    Many gay men obsessively hide, or shun their feminine side, or shun other guys who exhibit feminine traits. In the clip and film Corey Camperchioli takes the issue on without fear. At the end of the 'to camera' piece I wanted to give him the biggest hug.

    Whilst he may lack the physical presence and strength of some gay men who are (or want to be) perceived as very manly and masculine, he makes up for it by having amazing inner strength and resolve. In embracing his femme side, he actually demonstrates something very powerful.
     
  2. emerry

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    This is a problem when you want to participate in the gay community and don't fit neatly into either gender. I have also encountered the notion that I'm "tryig to be a man" or that I'm fetishizing something. It's okay to have preferences and not be into someone like that, femme man, butch woman, but why shame us like that?
     
  3. Niagara

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    I have noticed the bias against femme guys which is really unfair to them, but I also wonder why it’s only ever LGBT guys that seem to want to be femme. I’ve never seen any straight guy acting that way or showing any desire to act that way, and yeah it would be hidden more but it seems like there would have to be some who were open about it.

    So why aren’t straight guys femme but gay ones are?
     
  4. gravechild

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    I think it depends how you define "femme". Possibly controversial, but I do think gay folk are often gender non-conforming from an early age in a way that straight folk usually aren't.

    Another reason? Coming out is something straight people don't have to go through, so they're still bound by the rules that say "boys can't play with dolls" and such. There's a lot more risk, especially for males (tomboys are celebrated, but how many are familiar with "sissies" or "femboys", let alone appreciate them?)
     
  5. Totesgaybrah

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    His inner strength is beautiful! Being unapologetically yourself is hard but can be so powerful.

    I’ve definitely noticed the bias against more feminine guys, even in my own mind.
    If I’m being totally honest I would definitely prefer a more masculine guy.

    At the same time the guy in this video is being his authentic self whereas I’m sure most masculine men are simply hiding their inner femme. Which says a lot about both types.
     
  6. smurf

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    Sexism. Don't roll your eyes just yet, hear me out.

    So as gay guys we have more "permission" than straight guys to be feminine. Yes, its still tough as hell, but we don't have to fear being called gay because we are, we have the ability to connect with other lgbt femme peeps, and for the most part its easy to find femme lgbt in the media.

    Straight guys will have a tougher time with it all. They will worry about being perceived as gay and other friends might not be accepting.

    ALL that being said, straight guys have been able to be more feminine more than ever in recent american history.

    For example, a lot of guys will wear make up, talk about their feelings, wear tight pants, wear tight shirts, take care of their kids, worry about their appearance, etc. Things that were just unheard of back in the day. You will see a lot of conservative men talking about the "feminization of America" like its a plague and we are slowly destroying straight men. Go figure.

    A lot of the things that used to be considered feminine, like saying "I love you" to their sons, is now considered common place for many people. But to get to this place took SOOO much effort. Legit there was a push to teach men on how to be better parents and teach them that it doesn't make them less of a man to do so.

    Not sure if that answers your question, but yep society just punishes straight men way harder for feminine traits. Homophobia is largely based on the believe that you are more of a woman than a man, and you should be punished for it.
     
  7. Mikey D

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    While I have never personally been shunned by other gay guys for being feminine, I do often worry that they would not like my appearance. I worry that they may think I'm too femme, or even not femme enough. I also worry that they see me as not being a good representative of the LGBT community.
     
  8. Joe2001

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    For a lot of them, their masculinity is very fragile and even for the nicest of straight guys, a lot of them are worried about their image and anything that could potentially hint them being gay. Some gays are like that as well, but generally they seem to be more comfortable and the pressure is more off. That's just how masculinity works unfortunately. @smurf has it spot on.
     
    #8 Joe2001, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  9. Totesgaybrah

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    I’ve definitely embraced my feminine side since coming out.
    I used to be quite masculine or at least I acted more masculine.
    Since coming out it just feels like there’s much less of a reason to not just be myself.

    It always feels best to be yourself.
     
  10. Aussie792

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    You neither can represent, nor have an obligation to represent, the LGBT community as a whole. Literally nobody can in their day-to-day life. You can only totally represent yourself. LGBT people are not a a ready-formed class of persons with predetermined personalities, social behaviours, backgrounds or ideologies. The gay community is a diverse and widely distributed collection of real people who share a common essential sexual attribute.

    It's important neither to disparage femininity in gay men nor to say it's ideal or a more truthful form of self-expression for gay men. What is equally important is to acknowledge that traits marked as feminine (I think it's hard to argue they're inherently feminine) are okay and that many people within and without the gay community suppress them. But it's unfair to say that femininity in gay men is innate, whereas expressions of masculinity are a performance and a way to hide their 'inner femme'. Both are performative, insofar as they are learnt and acted on. They will tend to have different origins, sometimes quite organic and sometimes actively decided on.

    What is difficult is the opt-in nature of gay culture as opposed to homosexuality itself. That can create a lot of conflict between those who have no problem with assimilation* and those who consider there to be certain performative signifiers of gay acceptance and pride, many of which will ultimately be marked as feminine or, for many masculine-marked alternatives, overtly sexual (leather, for example). And if you're not comfortable with opting into any of those things, you can risk being something of an outsider to the community and having internalised homophobia imputed to your behaviour.

    *
    I hate the term, because it assumes that the performative elements of gay culture are innate characteristics. I think it's quite common among gay people who weren't raised with any particular sense of shame and had no strong reason to shift behaviour from how they were socialised as an act of rebellion or self-expression. It conflates genuine and disappointingly common acts of internalised homophobia with people who never got into the gay scene in a way I think is inappropriate.
     
    #10 Aussie792, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  11. Totesgaybrah

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    My post was poorly worded. I definitely agree with you.
     
  12. OGS

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    I always think it's funny that the main vibe I always get off the whole "masc only" crowd is fear--fear of things that are different and fear of what everyone might think. And I have to say that few things strike me as weaker and frankly less masculine than living in constant fear.
     
  13. Destin

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    I don't get that vibe at all - I've talked to some of the masc only people on apps and asked them about it out of curiosity too. They all more or less said it's because either over the top flamboyant feminine behavior is annoying to them and they just want a chill dude to spend time with, or they're attracted to the masculinity itself so if someone doesn't have that they aren't attracted at all. It's too complicated to specify exactly how much feminine behavior they're ok with so it's just easier for them to say 'no femme', but they don't actually have issues with the femme people, it's just their preference like height or race.
     
  14. Danabutton

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    I’ve have had an inner struggle with my femme as far as I can remember...I used to think I was straight now think I am really latent bi. However I have always seen certain parts of my body as more femme or the way I would dress during my teens and even now on occasion.
    I think I initially crossed the line when I had my navel pierced when I was a lot younger and in a way it felt very liberating although I took it out before going to the beach with some old school friends out of fear on how would I explain that....
    I also had a lot of conflicting interest; cars and home improvement as well as interior decorating and the arts...
    When I was maybe six or seven I used to think I was meant to be a girl but would still play cops and robbers and football etc...
    I dunno very convoluted I guess
     
  15. DreamerAsh

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    I personally like femme men, prefer them even. They tend to be more inclined to share feelings and have certain depths to their personalities that is difficult to find in masculine men as they hide them. Oftentimes they seem to be more attractive as well to me. But, human beings just like to put people in boxes, it's how we understand things. But, just like Divergent there's always going to be nonconformists. That's just how it is.