From what I have seen there is a true double standard when it applies to men and women and their sexuality. Society seems to accept and in some senses celebrate females who are bi. Women hooking up together is a fantasy of many men. It is seen as hot and sexy. I admit as a male I do find this intriguing. However the same really doesn't seem to hold true for males. A male who is bi is seen as weird or heavily judged by society. They usually have to hide this part of them. I have read many stories of women not wanting to be with a bi man or feeling they are less of a man. This is not to say that people of either gender don't struggle with judgement.
I think there are plenty of unbalanced opinions and biases in the LGBT community. I think we see that in the genral society as well. That said, I think you may be correct and I also have seen a bias against bi men. However, I do believe that particular one as well as other biases are eroding. Not everyone is going to be comfortable with who we are. For me, that's on them and is fine with me as long as they stay out of my way.
Men and women have different standards put on them by society. Women do get away with being less judged for being bisexual compared to men. But there are other things that men get away with more. None of it’s fair, but I think it will be very difficult to change.
I totally agree with this and not even just in terms with bisexuality. I think whilst not easy in many respects females coming out as gay is less judged than men. I mean you only have to look at sport and the number of women who are happily out and proud compared to men.
I never really thought about the difference between men & women coming out as gay, just about coming out as bi. I think sport is seen as a bit 'macho', and a guy coming out as gay is seen as like the opposite of macho (it shouldn't be, of course). My fiance works in construction and he doesn't know a single gay tradesman. I'm sure there will be some, but it probably feels hard for them to come out for the same reason as a guy in sports. But a woman coming out as gay in sports, or a lesbian lorry driver, well... some people would say that its just another side to their macho-ness? There's definitely a good proportion of lesbians that are quite macho to a level you rarely seen in straight women. Is that just a cultural thing or is it somehow inherent? There's plenty of gay and out men in what are seen as more traditionally female roles too, so I think the reverse applies. There are plenty of gay entertainers, air stewards, hairdressers/stylists etc. Do you think in general women are more accepted when they come out as gay? I definitely think female bisexuals get a lot more acceptance from potential opposite sex partners than male bisexuals do, which was the point of my first post.
It's funny how human nature seems to gravitate towards wanting absolute answers or standards. i want to think that people who are LBTQT+ would learn from their own differences from the status quo, and apply that understanding to others. But instead, we often just bring our baggage with us into a new community and wear the same old ill fitting garments in another place instead of tossing the standards that ostracize all people who are different.
Oh this is very true. Society as much as it wants to be all inclusive it everything but. The sad part is people are people regardless of gender, race, orientation, whatever. I was not complaining ib my original post as much as just thinking out loud.
Are lesbians more macho? Or is it that they having come out feel freer to embrace those qualities unlike the average straight girl. Ive no idea. It’s true what you say about the roles, like lesbian beautician, perhaps less likely to be out and proud. I hadnt really considered that as much. I totally get what you are saying and agree. In fact is something that crossed my mind when writing my post, I was cautious to write it in such a way that was saying one specific category of person had it easier or harder than another. I’ve also witnesses it first hand in the LGBT community where sections of the community almost try and splinter off and create divide rather than remembering what being divisive and non inclusive feels like.
in regard to the question of lesbians being "macho" I have a great friend who is lesbian and has been her entire life. She is extremely feminine and attracted to feminine women.
I have noticed that when it comes to bisexual women, some people are only accepting of it because they believe that bisexual women are straight and that any attraction to women is performative for men. Whereas, people assume that bisexual men are secretly gay with no real interest in women. I remember when I was in school a girl came out as bisexual and she was labelled as an attention seeker. I heard the other girls talk about how bisexuality wasn't real (classic biphobia) but that they should get pictures kissing her to get the boys talking. I remember boys asking her if she was really bisexual and how the shock factor of it all was attractive to them (ew). At the same time, a girl in one of the older years came out as a lesbian and the same girls who all fawned over the bisexual girl (believing her to be straight) called the lesbian disgusting and uninvited her from all of their events. I was deeply closeted at the time but the closet was glass and I was desperately trying to fight the gay rumours rather unsuccessfully. You know it's funny, back then I would be told that I wasn't feminine enough to be straight and now I'm told that I'm too feminine to be gay. I wouldn't say that I'm extremely feminine. I definitely lean more towards feminine but I also have days where I like to dress more dapper. I dress how I feel depending on the day. Some people say that it's blatantly obvious that I'm gay, other people don't believe me when I tell them.
To me it all seems same. Gay men and women are not that much different and face the same discrimination. Maybe it's the unequality of society women vs men that brings out more biases. I see that there are different layers that come out in the play too like I see from the reply's not just the sexuality aspect, but also whether the person is more fem or butch, then there will again be different biases. Media do seem to make it all much more aesthetic, than it really is, so my views might be narrow minded as I do not have much experience. It all also adds another layer to biases.
I dunno, I think its a distribution thing. Like, if you hypothetically lined up all straight women in order of macho-ness, and all lesbian women in order of macho-ness, that middle straight woman and middle lesbian woman wouldn't be all that much different. But if you lined up all straight & lesbian women together and then just looked at the most macho 1%, I think there would definitely be a high proportion of lesbians in there.
The first time a girl kissed me, it was literally for that reason. We were 'on the pull', except I didn't know that she was more interested in me than the boys. It is true that probably most straight men are turned on by the idea of two women being together, but I don't think its why men are more accepting of women being bisexual. I think its to do with how we're biologically wired to seek partners and have kids. Men are wired to sow their seed far and wide, but they soften and become less like that when they're partnered. Women are wired to seek the best possible mate and to hold onto that one person. I think that means men have little reason to care about gay/bi women, they're in competition with other men for (multiple) women when they're looking for a partner. That's how I make sense of it, anyway. That is definitely a thing. I think women are more wired to want to hold on to the best partner they can find, so if that guy happens to be bisexual, its seen as a risk factor in causing them to possibly stray (they have needs she can't meet). In the same way that a man who is a serial cheater, even if he promises he has changed is also seen as a risk and not a safe bet. Or a man who is substantially younger than the woman to give another example. Its unfair and I feel like its a harsh truth, but its better to acknowledge it than to deny it. Katy Perry has a lot to answer for! Kids are harsh. Totally unfiltered, no self awareness. I'm glad most of us grow out of it. I think I was similarly accepted as being bisexual by female friends and housemates. I don't think they took it all that seriously. I've been told I look straight, whatever that means. To be fair I know what it means, but there are also a ton of gay and bisexual women that don't wear flannel or put a carabiner on their belt loop. I think a lot of that is just signalling, same as how emos and goths like to signal their music tastes with clothing & style. I love a bit of MCR but I never dressed like I did either.
Ironically, I've never been rejected by women for being bi, but have been given crap by gay men. Like, telling me not to go to Pride events, not that I would, they're too far away to walk and I hate crowds, and saying they're not interested in me because I'm also attracted to women. Like, okay because I'm more into women anyway? But also wtf?