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Does anyone else think pride parades go too far?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by falcenav, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. LitePenguin

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    And I am not blaming victims.

    You are choosing to take me out of context.

    My point then was to say, we shouldn't become what we are being hurt.

    A lot of people have a tendency to become bigoted against straight people as well

    All I was stating is, just because of prior injustices, this does not make the LGBT community a party without guilt or blame.

    Both parties need to be accountable for their actions.
     
  2. OGS

    OGS
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    No, it sounds more like Pride.
     
  3. LitePenguin

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    The compromise, my friend, is between not just gays and straights.

    The compromise is between mankind and itself.

    Allowing ourselves to be ourselves, for the *sake* of ourselves.

    Compromise for the sake of compromise/

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 04:51 PM ----------

    Pride?

    Do explain, for I did not intend it that way.
     
  4. Black Raven

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    Err... no, not really.
    I honestly think you're just wording your point of view in a terribly confusing way. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  5. Maddy

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    So we need to be accountable for being a little bit too gay, just as the people who hurt us for it need to be accountable for that?

    Violence is caused by the violent. It is not caused by the victim. And it's not the job of the victim to change a fundamental part of themselves in order to stop the victimisation.
     
  6. LitePenguin

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    Refer back.

    You are acting as if a compromise is a trade of some sort.

    No.

    A compromise can also be a mutual agreement.
    The mutual agreement to be equal in responsibility and rights.
     
  7. Maddy

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    I don't feel as though "we'll give you basic human rights as long as you stifle the parts of yourselves that make us dislike you" is a reasonable compromise.
     
  8. Black Raven

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    Oh for fucks sake, just admit and accept that you're wording your thoughts in a way that is really easy to misinterpret. :icon_razz

    You're just rambling now. Focus.
    Be more specific. Be more considerate regarding what words you use.

    There will be less confusion, and everybody will know exactly what you are talking about.
    A win-win situation for everyone, a good compromise!
     
  9. LitePenguin

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    Again, you are taking me out of context.

    No, a gay man should not be arrested if he is being "too gay".

    If he takes a gun, and shoots another man, he should be accountable.

    Just as much as if a straight man were to do the same.

    I am not putting the LGBT community down. I am not saying they are evil, I am one of you.

    I am simply stating that everyone needs to be accountable for their actions, gay, straight, bisexual.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 04:56 PM ----------

    I'm being ragged on by Raven, Maddy, and OGS.

    It's hard to "keep my focus" and answer three different accusations at the same time.

    One at a time, please.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Now, does my wording of compromise make a little more sense now?

    Not a trade.

    A mutual agreement of rights and expressions.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 04:58 PM ----------

    Please, people. >.<

    I am not trying to string up the LGBT community like they are at fault entirely.
     
  10. Maddy

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    What would our responsibilities be in that context? To tone ourselves down until straight people find us acceptable enough?

    I'm not cool with the breaking of laws at pride parades (indecent exposure is what comes to mind), but being flamboyant, being shirtless, being loud and proud and celebrating for one day a year - does that have to be stripped from us in order for us to be considered worthy of our rights?
     
  11. LitePenguin

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    Simply put, I am saying this:

    I don't care if you're gay, straight, bisexual, transsexual, a cross dresser, a furry, or whatever.

    You are a human being and you deserve the same rights to express yourself, as well as the same accountability., as anybody.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:02 PM ----------

    Maddy, no.

    You shouldn't have to tone down.

    I never said that.

    As long as its legal and responsible, not putting others in danger, then you should be able to do it, okay?

    Nobody should be stripped of their rights.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:03 PM ----------

    Loud and proud is okay.

    Being arrogant and dangerous is not.

    Does that clarify?
     
  12. Chiroptera

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    Wow, calm down bro. No one here (at least, not me) is being homophobic (that woudn't make sense here anyway). To discuss the validity of the event doesn't mean any of those who are against it here in the forum are homophobic people.

    I've seen valid arguments of both sides. I don't see why you come here with 2 stones in your hand. Calm down, lets discuss peacefully and show our point of view without being agressive.
     
  13. Maddy

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    Let me put this as clearly as I can. It sounds as though you're saying that LGBTIQ people are partly responsible for the discrimination and violence we face at the hands of cisgender heterosexual people, and that it's our responsibility to make ourselves "acceptable" enough for them to not perpetrate violence against us. That's why we're upset.
     
  14. LitePenguin

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    Look, everyone...I'm just tired and honestly defeated.

    I meant well, and I still do.

    But I can't handle four to six people badgering me on eight different fronts alone, alright?

    So please, I hope I didn't offend anyone, I truly meant well, and I hope at least some of what I said made sense >.<

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:07 PM ----------

    No...I never said LGBT are responsible for the violence against them.

    Nor did I ever state we should make ourselves "acceptable".

    >.<

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:08 PM ----------

    I only said that there are cases of discrimination on both ends of the spectrum, not just one.
     
  15. Black Raven

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    Ah well, I don't doubt you mean well.
    Can't help but feel that you failed at getting your point across, but I don't think you're NOT meaning well.

    It's probably best to leave this discussion, have a good nights sleep and continue it tomorrow.
     
  16. LitePenguin

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    Again, you keep associating compromise with trade.

    What I mean:

    Compromise = mutual agreement over rights to express ourselves and moderate our own actions responsibly.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:10 PM ----------

    Oh, I'm burning myself at the stake with every post, heh...

    Ah well.

    I never was a good speaker, best keep my talents at writing to writing novels, not political topics.

    ---------- Post added 17th Aug 2014 at 05:11 PM ----------

    Anyway, thanks everyone.

    See y'all later!
     
  17. Black Raven

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    Come back tomorrow.
    You're not having any luck today. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  18. Aussie792

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    Going to go to a beach to tell the straights to put more clothes on, then?
     
  19. OGS

    OGS
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    I am calm. And I'm also tired. I will say--I've said it several times--that this forum really is one of the only places in my life where I encounter blatant homophobia. I encounter a lot of blanket generalizations about what gay people are like (one person likes to throw around the word "predator") and a lot of comments which seem to imply that if gay people would just all be different things would work out alright. I am perhaps very blessed that I really don't encounter that sort of thing in my day to day life. The notion--which seems implicit in your comment (although I could be misinterpreting)--that gay people can't be homophobic is silly and I stand by my comment.
     
  20. BobObob

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    That's a very good summary of what I and others have been trying to say.

    LitePenquin, it may help if you elaborate on what kind of things you're thinking of when you say that LGBT people should be accountable like everyone else. What kind of things are you concerned about LGBT people not being accountable for at pride parades? You could offer specifics (such as violating indecent exposure laws for example).