Do you think people like J K Rowling are queerphobic or just ignorants?

Some women I know are very adamant about not wanting to share female only spaces with anyone not born female. Genuine transwomen are not a threat to women IMO, but there is definitely a problem with men. There are a lot of weirdos out there and they will use the "I'm self identifying as female excuse" to access female only spaces for their own gratification and worst case, some of them are actual predators likely to harm women. I don't think that much of the resistance to Scotland's gender recognition bill comes from genuine transphobia, I think it comes from genuine fear of men. But it does mean that genuine transwomen are 'collateral damage'. Women are absolutely right to be wary of unknown men when they are in a private space. To me, that's the point JKR is trying to make, but she could have made it clearer and no doubt the media will have taken some of her points of view out of context too, in order to generate outrage.

 

Not claiming to speak for men here - if any men disagree then feel free to correct me - but I don't think most men give two hoots about who uses their toilets, as they don't consider themselves to be at risk either from perverts or physical/sexual assault. Or at least, they're not at risk of people born female doing those things. Its men that are the vast majority of offenders, even when the victims are other males. When I was a young kid my dad used to stand outside the ladies toilets while I was inside, but would he have been comfortable doing that if someone obviously born male had walked in first? It's a dilemma for sure, because you want to think the best of people but you also have to be cautious of people you don't know as there are some real wronguns out there. And a parent's instincts are always going to fall on the side of protection.

 

I was taught ignorant, racist and prejudice things too, but I questioned them, especially after knowing I'm gay, and I chose to reject them as wrong. You can listen to the majority of queer people of all types and a common thread is we knew these things about ourselves for most of our lives and we see them in hindsight too. We were not taught to have these parts of us, yet we still did and people always will. She and others should believe us, we didn't ask for this, knowing about queer people has never made anyone queer in any way, but visibility and acceptance does help us understand ourselves and not go through hell most of us have. There is no reason for us to be treated this way and it's inhumane. We just want to live authentically like anyone but they won't allow us the same decency they expect. Even worse, they blame us for problems in society as reasons to denounce us and erase our existence.

 

Not everyone with shitty family grows up to be shitty. Everyone has a choice.

 

I'm always amused when Rowling casually adds that she has 'trans friends' into her bigoted spiel about us.

Really? I'd be fascinated to hear from one of these 'friends' and find out what they think.

In a way she's in a fine tradition of authors of kids' books who turn out to have objectionable political views - Roald Dahl, Enid Blyton etc. One day she'll be seen as just as much of an anachronism as they are..

Beth

 

Maybe but you seem to think the only bigoted and ignorant people are those who oppose your point of view.
Do you think it’s possible that there is an intellectual person that disagrees with you?
How di jk Rowling go from being the darling of progressive values to being a pariah? Did she suddenly become ignorant?

 

Sorry, I just have to pick you up on this. Where are all these 'men' who declare themselves female and compete in women's sports?

There is a tiny percentage of trans women who would like to compete recreationally in their chosen sport as the gender they are. I am one of them. Or perhaps you regard me as a man?

Your comment suggests you've been spending too much time immersing yourself in the right wing gutter press.

Beth

 

There was recently a swimmer Leia Thomas who competed in women's swimming. Do you think that was fair?

Circular logic. Anyone who disagrees with me is transphobic, so there no arguments are valid.
What is JK Rowling saying, specifically that is 'transphobic' and explain what exactly constitutes that.

 

I’m guessing you are focusing on transgender women and ignoring transgender men in this debate.

Sport is an inherently unfair competition. People with the best genetics always come out as the best. Transgender women if partaking in sport at a high level will also have these ‘best genetics’ to help them win. It’s something which helped them get there in the first place.

A lot of the debate is centred around the males already being advantageous: greater average bone mass, greater muscle mass, etc which is generally attributed to testosterone hormones. However, trans women have this hormone suppressed with Oestrogen, progesterone and anti-androgens drugs which decreases this muscle and bone mass by variable amounts.

Why do you bring up a singular althlete in Lia Thomas? It feels like you might be cherry-picking examples of transgender women competing in sport. How much can you attribute her success to being assigned male at birth? What if she had the unfair genetics I mentioned before?

The reason why this opinion of opposing trans women in women’s sports is considered transphobic is because it of its consequences: trans women are either banned from sports (which makes them feel even more disconnected from society) or make them play in their assigned at births division (which also makes them more alienated from society). It brings trans women nothing but misery and pain if this happened, which is why it’s considered transphobic.

Conclusion: just because someone is transgender doesn’t mean their success is because of their assigned at births gender. Sports isn’t that simple.

 

The sport thing is a really difficult one. I was a nationally competitive gymnast and I also was good enough where I could have probably started competing in distance running, weightlifting (which is in classes, I would probably drop ~1kg to get into the <50kg class) and kickboxing. Weightlifting & kickboxing I would be at a big disadvantage to someone who has ever had male levels of testosterone, whether that is a transwoman or just a woman who has at some point taken steroids, especially if taken while the body is still growing. Bone structure makes a big difference. I’ve held the pads for teenage lads who are similar size & weight to me (5’5”, 51kg / 8 stone) and the power some of them have is unreal. They might have as much explosive power as a similarly trained woman at 5ft 9”, 70kg / 11 stone does. Going on women’s hormones or even a full surgical transition doesn’t remove all the strength advantages of going through male puberty.

It doesn’t matter what you do though, there is always going to be unfairness. If you let transwomen compete, it’s unfair to the natural born women in some sports. If you don’t let transwomen compete, it’s unfair on them and it’s kinda like denying what they are. Bad situation all round, really.