Do you consider it transphobic...

I absolutely see it as transphobic. If someone find me attractive but then upon learning my birth assignment is turned off that is prejudice and transphobic.

I see the opposite as also true. If someone will only date/have sex with transitioned people or thinks that we are "special" or "better" then that is a fetish and in my mind also transphobic.

In both cases it means that the person does not see me as actually being a woman (or other transitioned people as who they are). There are many people though who are very offended at my views on this.

 

I agree with QuietPeace.

You may not be attracted to the person and it’s not because they are trans you just don’t.
Like straight women may not find every guy attractive. I may not be attracted to someone, like I may not find the next person walking past me down the street attractive but not because they are trans because I don’t find that one person attractive but I might find someone who is trans that I like but I see them for who they are. But saying I won’t date trans people, yeah transphobic.

 

I hope that made sense

 

This is a question I have previously debated offline as well as online and I would ask members who participate in this thread to think very carefully about what they write because the offline debate I attended imploded into acrimonious argument with lots of hurt feelings on all sides. If this thread shows any sign of descending into argument it will be moderated or closed.

Personally, I see a trans man as a man and a trans woman as a woman. As a trans ally, I try see the whole person and not reduce anyone to body parts and genitalia. I think that's a very important principle.

It's been suggested that a gay man could not date a trans man who has not fully transitioned, but I respectfully disagree. Again, I'm speaking for myself, but I know of and have met trans men at various stages of transitioning who totally "pass" and are physically very attractive. In my dating days, could and would I have considered dating one of these guys? Yes, absolutely... providing their personality was just as attractive (whole person).

I think sometimes we need to approach this question slightly differently and avoid the confrontational subject of transphobia, because I don't think it gets to the crux of the issue when we frame it from a transphobic angle. Those of us who are lesbian and gay perhaps need to ask ourselves (really ask ourselves) how significant a factor is another persons body parts in determining our sexuality? It's a question we should take time to ponder carefully and answer courteously.

 

First of all, having this discussion here, were we are all open to talking about our sexuality is a different environment to many of the people we meet in everyday life. As we have been discovering our own sexuality we are naturally more aware than others, and perhaps more respectful.

I do believe that what you are saying is correct, it is a form of transphobia - whether intentional or not. I think in some cases it is ignorance and I think porn plays a big part in these attitudes. Like all sexual preferences, porn is not the real world and it takes away the human side of it. It makes transexuals out to be something exotic without considering the reality that this is a real man or woman making the transition to the right body.

In many ways it's the difference between meeting someone who just wants sex and someone who wants a relationship. That happens in all cases in life.

I think whether you are born with the body that matches your true gender or you transition later in life, nobody has the right to treat you or your body in any way that is disrespectful or hurtful.

For me the most important is the person inside that makes someone attractive in more ways than just physical. Yes, sex is an important part of any relationship, so it’s important that both partners talk about what is important for them in the bedroom. Perhaps being bi makes me more open-minded about this topic than others. Everyone is different and has different sexual preferences but it needs to be acceptable and respectful to both partners.

 

I am trans. I would never consider it transphobic or prejudice if someone wouldn’t want to date me based on that. They are not pansexual.

I am not transphobic or prejudice (obviously!) and I find it really offensive if someone thought I was, based on my sexual preference.

 

No, it's a preference.

When I do finally re-enter the dating game I intend to be completely upfront about who I am and where I am in my transition and if my charm and winning personality (!) isn't enough and they'd prefer a cis woman.. well, they wouldn't be right for me anyway. But would I regard it as transphobic? No. I realise that society hasn't yet evolved yet to the point where cis and trans-women are regarded as completely alike. Are we slowly getting there? Yes, I believe we are.

Personally, I would never have a relationship with anyone with a face tattoo, anyone who doesn't know how to use an apostrophe and anyone who voted for Brexit. Does that make me an awful prejudiced person?

 

Thank you. You know I’m not transphobic or prejudice. You have common sense! It’s a preference.

Too many in here think the other way and I find it really offensive to be thought of as transphobic and prejudice. It’s a bloody insult! Especially since I’m trans myself!

 

Me either to any of the above These people here will have you believe you are prejudice but no... you are definitely not.

 

I was not trying to be insulting. I'm sorry if my comments have made it this way. I think my point was somehow lost and I apologise for this.

 

This may be taking this off-topic but....

I think there is a tendency within some sections of the global trans community to seize on every misplaced pronoun and perceived slight that happens in our lives as evidence of ‘transphobia’. I don’t think this does us any favours. It’s easy to scurry back to the safety of the ‘safe space’ instead of confronting what perhaps are more complex issues and trying to differentiate between what is transphobia and what are maybe individuals being a bit thoughtless, gauche and ignorant (because of the transphobic society we have all been brought up in).

But to do that we need to engage with people and nurture potential allies and this needs patience, emotional intelligence and an acceptance that the world as it is at the moment isn’t perfect.

Just my tuppence’ worth..

Beth

 

As a lesbian who is outright repulsed by penises, I do avoid trans women on dating apps (at least for dating purposes). In no small part because I don’t want to hurt someone. Because the thing that’s a problem for me is something I wouldn’t know and can’t ask without being rude until deep into the process and I can’t imagine that it would feel good to get into a bedroom and have someone react badly to the very thing your dysphoric about. I feel bad about that, but the idea of getting into that situation sounds even more hurtful for everyone involved. I feel like if I were Bi or just weren’t as gay as I am, it might be different. I think it would be perfectly lovely to be friends with a trans person. I just...I can’t deal with penises in a romantic situation and don’t want to get surprised. I’m sorry if that’s hurtful. It’s just honest and coming from a place of not wanting to hurt someone.

 

I don't think it is hurtful. I think you have explained your reasoning well and in a way that is courteous, tactful and respectful. It just goes to show that we can have a discussion around this issue without lots of pain and drama. Thank you!

 

There are some very specific types who catch my eye and I can't help that. That would almost rule out people who other people think are awesome - like Brad Pitt when he was younger and Jennifer Lawrence, to give examples. So, if I'm not really into the types of looks of popular cis people, then there are a lot of people who wouldn't catch my eye and I don't think I'm discriminating. It's taste. But I've always been open to having friends from a really broad spectrum.

 

Yeah, to be clear...

I'm happy to go to dinner with a trans woman (who is interested and able to put up with me). Go to the movies. Play videogames. Go to a theme park. If I played women's sportsball, I would proudly play women's sportsball with you. You would crush me, but that's because I'm fundamentally bad at sportsball (which I appreciate puts my lesbian card in question). I will proudly cheer as trans women play sportsball or model or demo makeup or do whatever activities give them joy in this life. I would obliviously use a restroom stall next to you or changing room stall. All the things. I just can't have a physical romantic relationship with someone with a penis. And trust me, my Southern Baptist family would be thrilled if I could change that about myself. It would have saved me a lot of trouble in this life if I could have changed that. I just can’t.

 

I guess if you feel that way then just date Cis people but no need to say “ I refuse to date trans people etc.” That’s the transphobic part I think.

 

I would note that the people here echoing that sentiment are almost all Bi.

And if my choices on who I pursue physical relationships offends you, so be it. Stand in line. I don’t owe you my sex life any more than I owe my parents or former churches.

 

Arguably, you attempting to shame me about what body parts I’m willing or able to comfortably interact with in an intimate situation makes you little to no better than the people I came here to get away from.

I owe trans people dignity. I owe them respect. I owe them kindness. I will root for them. I will fight for them. I will vote for their interests. I do not owe them sex. I do not owe anyone sex.

 

This. I have trans friends and they say the worst thing is being strung along and then dumped because the other person wouldn't speak up during an intimate moment.