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Difficult to define sexuality

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by ECMember, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. ECMember

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    I've been here on EC a while and I've been confused with my sexuality.

    Had leaned towards two close male friends and felt somewhat of a connection emotional/platonic/sexual connection to them. Though nothing sexual happend between them. On top of that I questioned my sexuality for a brief period, I used a hook up app and received a few hand jobs with guys lived on campus at my college. Though I did spent the night with a guy who I met online.

    Then after all that I began to get involve in an evangelical Christian org at my college and slowly began to shed the "curiousity" I felt. Not using the hook up app for hook ups and leaning slowly towards the new group of friends I was making in this Christian group.

    Though I still feel like I'm questioning myself because I feel confused with the two guys I had some feelings over plus the hand jobs I had. I feel conflicted over the "sin" of non heterosexuality and divided up from the Christian Left and Right(which my Christian group appears in it's borders). I do identify myself as a progressive Evangelical/Christian Left and I've somewhat have had conversations with a conservative in my ministry. My curiosity or questioning of my sexuality is something I've kept in my private life.

    I haven't had complete sex or a real relationship though I'm interested. But I'm employed at the moment and live my parents. I don't have a car or license but I'm looking for a job as the steeping stone.

    And if people suggest I should go to a LGBT bar/club for friends, that's the last thing I need. I've been sober for 13 months and avoid bars or clubs because the two guys I had crushes on are alcholics/addicts.

    I can't explore my sexuality further is because my parents are somewhat conservative in terms of LGBT. They freaked out in 2016 when they saw a reply to an ad for friendship/relationship on my laptop and had pics of an older guys naked and exposed penises, who invited me to meet at truck stops.

    I didn't meet no older men for sex or had sex with older men. I was in a rough place at the time dealing with the curiousity of my sexuality and didn't pay attention to the inbox of who replied.

    Also my parents aren't 100% bible thumping Christians. My mom goes to Catholic mass somewhat but my dad stays at my home though he's not athetist. He has PTSD and has a fear of a church shooting like the one that happend last yr.
     
  2. flitterpad

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    Are you attracted to women or only to men?
     
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  3. JaimeGaye

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    "The Gay Test"
    1st question- Are you Gay?
    If you answer yes, you are gay.
     
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  4. Richard321

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    Your writing of, "after that I got involved with evangelical Christian org at my college" is painfully very telling. It shows to me big conflict / cognitive dissonance. Clearly you are at odds in your mind about your feelings and desires on the one side, and your parents' hard line religiosity on the other. Personally, I'd say that meeting apps such as ###### for pick ups and right wing religiosity are two opposite extremes. Extremes are generally unhealthy. And switching between opposite extremes like that will tend to make future switchings likely. I'd say for you to start by ditching both of these extremes - and revisit neither. Instead explore yourself and the space in between. Do you really want to have more meaningless / brief encounters? Do you really want hard line judgemental religion? I'd say you don't want either.
     
  5. ECMember

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    I don't see myself as 100% gay.

    I have had fantasies over women and desiring to have a relationship with women.

    The thing with guys just came up over the past few years
     
  6. OGS

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    Obviously only you know what you really feel, but I have to say what you say to me sounds pretty typical for a gay guy in the stages of denial. I actually had relationships with women during that stage (sex and everything). In a situation like yours there's immense pressure to push those gay feelings down and find straight feelings. What really strikes me is how far you've gone on the gay side. That's actually what strikes me as unusual in your situation.
     
  7. ECMember

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    I've only humped and had hand jobs given to me. That's all. And Briefly attempted to hump a girl with two other guys while I was somewhat blazed from weed
     
  8. Chip

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    First, congratulations on your sobriety. Second, congratulations for talking and thinking about what's going on for you; I suspect the substance use issues were probably arising at least in part due to the unaddressed sexuality confusion.

    Put aside the moral and spiritual/religious issues for a moment (as hard as that many be) and look at purely your arousal and attraction. When you masturbate (without porn), do you find yourself thinking about guys more? or girls? Thinking about one or the other, which creates a stronger sense of attraction and arousal? What happens when you are out and about? Are you looking more at guys or at girls?

    The issue that often comes up for people who come from strongly religious backgrounds is an attempt to rationalize away their same-sex attraction, and to amplify their opposite-sex attraction. This is understandable, as the hardwired sexual desire is at conflict with the religious teachings, so naturally your unconscious will try to reconcile the two. Except that it pretty much never works.

    So I think if you look at the masturbation fantasies and think about what that tells you, it may help clarify things further. If you are comfortable talking about that here, we may be able to offer more insights.
     
  9. NoName87

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    Chip,

    I apologize if this is inappropriate to this thread, however I feel this applies.

    You have mentioned multiple times that a strong indicator for orientation is masturbation fantasies. I struggle with this theory as my fantasies are 90% with men, which explains a lot. In your opinion if you can without writing a thesis, explain romantic vs. sexual attraction? Can they be separated or are they intertwined?

    I feel strongly at the moment they are separate.

    Thank you.
     
  10. JaimeGaye

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    I can add some to this.
    When you finish masturbating do you continue to wonder how you and the fantasy sex partner would interact after having sex or are you completed by the orgasm?
    Objectification of a sex partner is common to males both straight and gay and is ingrained by nature into the psyche.
    Your objective focal is a same sex partner 9 out of 10 times you orgasm.

    When you fantasize about nonsexual collaborative relationships do these fantasies also mainly involve males or are these fantasies mainly heterosexual in nature for you?
    This is your romantic attraction objective.

    Figuring out how the two interact together in your own mind will lead you to your primary sexual orientation as well as your self gender identification.
     
  11. Chip

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    Objectification doesn't really enter into sexual orientation, as it happens to both sexes. It's also prone to interference with conscious mind. That's why the sexual arousal from masturbation is the most reliable indicator.

    Uh, no. Again, there's zero credible evidence supporting the idea of a separation between romantic and sexual orientations. This is a creation of a small but vocal group of people based on groupthink, and entirely without any credible evidence. This concept isn't supported by any study, nor is it widely accepted among professionals in the field.

    Please stop confusing people.
     
    #11 Chip, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  12. Chip

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    I apologize for the confusing, research- and science-free information posted above. :slight_smile:

    All that we know from close to 60 years of research on sexual attraction, arousal, relationships, and so forth support the idea that sexual attraction is sexual attraction. "Romantic attraction" does exist, but there's another phrase people have used for millenia to describe it... deep, emotionally intimate friendship. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation or sexual attraction. So this alleged separation is, according to everything we know, basically something made up by a small-but-vocal group of people without any credible research or study of any kind. This concept isn't recognized by any of the major associations that look at such things, nor is there any acceptance of this concept among the overwhelming majority of professionals in the field.

    So... it's pretty safe to say that if 90% of your masturbation fantasies are focused on men, it is highly likely that your sexual orientation is toward men also.

    Do you struggle because you don't want to accept yourself as gay? Or is there something else going on here that adds to the picture?
     
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  13. ECMember

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    My two masturbation sessions today were just me just getting off. I wasn't focusing on any gender.

    I mean there was some instances I masturbated to an online listing of girl/female gymnasts posing in their leotards on an online shop. And masturbated to female gymnasts doing routines. And I've masturbated to cheap porn clips of college sorority girls masturbating.

    I haven't masturbated to men that much. I don't masturbate to male celebrities/athletes/etc. I've looked at porn clips of guys wearing and jerking off in compression spandex shorts/swim jammers. And one clip of a guy wearing a gymnast leotard. And there was the few times I looked at my friend's instagram pictures when he was in high school and masturbated to them.

    If I could pick types of people I could have a relationship with

    Female- White, petite, virgin, college freshman-sophomore(18-20), blonde, and at least educated and not promiscuous.

    Guy-white, youngish looking features, 18-22, college, preppy dressed or looking, red or blonde hair, masculine
     
  14. NoName87

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    Chip and Jamie,

    Thank you both for your insight, it was not my intention to cause a dispute. But I am glad to see you both are passionate about your beliefs:slight_smile:

    Chip- that does make sense “sexual attraction is just sexual attraction” If I am to understand you correctly the romantic component has no direct causal relationship with sexual attraction. That would be interesting research to read up on, any names to point me in that direction? For what ever reason the gestalt of that theory came through with that analysis. Do I agree I would like to see numbers and methodology. But thank you!

    Yes and no- As a late in lifer, As a married man to a women, who is able to perform when needed. I guess I struggle with letting go the deep intimate connection I have with my wife. I know where my true desires lie, I clearly lean Gay I accept that. I just need to know I am not going to destroy the women I love for lust alone. Upon reflection of your comments I think “romance” can be found between any two people regardless of sexual orientation, all things being equal. I just have to find my type, I have to put my self out there and start to experience these deep sexual desires and stop obsessing over them.

    Hope that makes sense! Thanks again.
     
  15. Chip

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    I don't think it's accurate to say that romantic component has no relationship with sexual attraction.

    What I'm saying is that there's nothing supporting the notion that people have separate romantic and sexual attractions, and honestly, it's a huge misnomer; the "romantic attraction" described by those who try to separate it is nothing more than deep, emotionally intimate friendship, which has nothing to do with sexual connection.

    And deep sexual connection has (at its ideal), as a part of it, a connection that combines emotional, psychological, and physical experiences and attributes. It's all combined into one thing and isn't separable as much as some people would try to argue that it can be.

    This isn't to say that one cannot have sex with someone they have no connection with, or even that coercive sex can produce orgasm. Both are true. But at that point, we're talking about a physical act that doesn't have the emotional and psychological pieces to it, and that tends to be more a situation where someone can't access the emotional vulnerability necessary for truly deep sexual connection. (This is especially the case with the overwhelming majority of those whose sexual experiences are mostly in the form of hookups.)

    I really need to pull together a good citation list, as this is coming up often enough that it's worthwhile to do so. The challenge with the research is there's a lot of junk amid the quality research (this is an epidemic problem in psychological studies on the whole), but there are some well designed studies with good information, as well as some where, in spite of flaws, they nonetheless provide us with valuable insights. I'll work on pulling together a citation list.
     
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  16. ECMember

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    @Chip did you read my last post.
     
  17. Richard321

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    Scorpiontx91, you didn't mention females at all in your thread opener here.
    Anyway, stop the weed smoking and the alcohol intoxication and give yourself some clear time and space to see yourself in. Neither the weed or alcohol are bad per se, but they do seem to be clouding thing a lot for you.
     
  18. ECMember

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    Richard. Read my post to Chip I mentioned women
     
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  19. OGS

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    I think what he is saying is that it's interesting that in starting this thread you wrote quite a bit about your sexuality/sexual history and women didn't even come up. It's unusual. I consider myself gay--been with my husband for 20 years but if I was to give my sexual history there are quite a few women who would come up.
     
  20. ECMember

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    I haven't had sex with women. I did try to hump one. And I did attempt to ask a girl I met at the psych hospital to be my friends with benefits but that didn't happen.