Deathly Afraid of a Trump President

None of this has anything relevance. Not only did you, once again, not demonstrate (1), you also completely ignore the other things I've said to you.

"If that really happened and someone put a gun to your head and said they were going to give you freedom from life, unless you could tell them why death wasn't freedom would you just be like "Well, freedom is entirely subjective, so do what you want"?"

^ Besides being irrelevant to the point I've been making, it doesn't entail any information. Unless death wasn't freedom.. This has nothing to do with freedom being subjective. "Unless death isn't bright orange". Even though you probably will not read this properly, some people see death as "liberating" and could thus argue that it gives them freedom. Pointless example once again.

 

Yes, I'm very scared if Trump wins. If I wasn't sedated by meds, I probably wouldn't be sleeping much these nights. I'm also scared of war with Russia if Clinton wins. I'm scared either way. This doesn't help my depression obviously.

 

@SkyWinter
Mind if I start a dialogue with you? Alright great. Just want to hear your opinions on a few matters; I've never gotten a chance to talk to a Trump supporter before.
Alright, issue number one!
1) What happens if Trump dies during his presidency? You've spoken quite a bit about freedom for all. Wouldn't Pence give you exactly the opposite? He's notoriously anti-LGBTQ+ and probably wouldn't give us the freedom you so desire.
2) Just resharing this to make sure you've looked at it! Donald Trump pledges to sign anti-LGBTQ ‘First Amendment Defense Act’ / LGBTQ Nation (Thanks, AwesomGaytheist!)
3) So, you've said that Muslims are a super-conservative, oppressive group that will ruin our chance at freedom.
3a) You also said that there's some good Muslims. Do you want to make sure the good ones stay out too, with indiscriminate discrimination? Do you want to punish many innocents for the crimes of few? (Even if there are only a few good ones (which is not the case), do you want to punish good people for others' crimes at all? Using one of your famous examples: I'm sharing Skittles from my Halloween plunder with anyone who wants some. A high school junior comes over and punches me in the face, grabbing the bag and eating the rest. The next day, I have more. A junior who was one of my friends asks for some, and I decline because juniors are bullies.)
3b) How does "freedom for all" work with "get rid of the Muslims"? Lumping them all together as conservative murderers isn't exactly freedom for them, is it?

 

I don't care that my question to you was irrelevant to your point.

I don't care that it doesn't entail any information. It was a question that you chose not to answer.

Here's some more questions you can ignore: If you view death as freedom, then to you is death something that someone should prefer to life? Because why would someone prefer not being free to being free? Maybe if they were a masochist?

 

@SkyWinter
In case you didn't notice, I addressed a post to you. It's right above yours ;D

 

I am also more afraid of Hillary than Trump! And I am so glad to see there are other LGBT folks who agree--I have not met any before (that I knew of, anyway) and have been feeling politically closeted lately...it's been driving me nuts! I can't wait for this election to be over.

 

I don't think Pence is going to start rounding up gay people and throwing them into ovens. The west is largely becoming much more accepting of the LGBT community. Is it perfect? Nope. But it's also not going to revert back to some crazy place where we are running for our lives.

After slavery was abolished there were absolutely politicians who wanted to keep slavery, but it hasn't been a problem has it?

After women were allowed to vote there were absolutely politicians who wanted to take it back, but so far women can still vote.

So I wouldn't worry too much about someone who isn't exactly best buds with the LGBT community.

I've seen that. I think that it is being blown out of proportion. The 1st Amendment act is protecting a private group, the church, from discrimination by the government for their beliefs.

The LGBT community is upset because it means churches can refuse gay couples if they want to without repercussion from the government. That of course doesn't mean all of them will turn gay couples away. Just the dumb ones will turn gay people away.

Of course I don't have a problem with moral, rational, compassionate people coming to the U.S., but how do you determine that? Won't a terrible murderer say he's a real nice guy so that he can murder you? Why do you think there are so many scam artists who get away with it? Because people mistake their lies for the truth.

Would you let anyone into your house who wanted in claiming they were nice? It would be great if we lived in a world where we could do that but we don't.

No, I don't want to punish good people for the crimes of the evil. Why would I? That wouldn't make sense. But me protecting myself isn't in any way me punishing anyone.

So in regards to your scenario with Skittles, if someone attacked you and stole your candy, which wouldn't be okay, it wouldn't be weird for you to suddenly be protective. If a junior walks up and asks for candy, whether you were attacked or not, is a voluntary interaction. They are asking you for candy and you have a choice to give them candy or not. Your reasons for giving them or not giving them the candy aren't important as you don't have to do anything you don't want to in a voluntary situation. Does that make sense?

I'm not saying we should "get rid of them". I don't know where that is coming from. Nor am I saying they are all murderers. There are absolutely peaceful Muslims. However, the Middle East, is statistically, (in other words, not my opinion/backed up by data) much more conservative than the west. They have verrrryyyyy different views on the legality of gay sex, gay marriage, etc.

You brought up Pence as anti-lgbt as being problematic. If you're concerned about the LGBT community you should be concerned about mass immigration of Muslims.

If you're worried about society reverting back to bad times you shouldn't want to import thousands and thousands of people from a culture that is not as progressive as our own as that will actually be what creates this scenario where we have to go back into hiding.

 

You made some really good points there! However, I'm still worried about the measures Trump & especially Pence will try to take to pass legislature restricting the rights of our community. Also, I think you're overdramatising the immigration "problem" a bit: you seem to be framing it as a flood of conservatives out for our blood into the country. Especially the phrasing of "go back into hiding". Couldn't it also be the case that they'll be friendly?

 

Hilary Clinton is going to be the next president. Don't worry.

 

I'm not worried about Trump, It's crazy ass Mike Pence I worry about.

 

What do you think? Do you think Muslims are more or less conservative than Christians? Is the fact that Christians like to block things like gay marriage a problem? If so why do you want more conservative groups to be entering the country?

Also, there was just a story i posted about on here about a Muslim transwoman in Russia who was murdered after her father called for her death and they found her body chopped up. Is it overdramatizing immigration when I don't want violent people coming into my country? We have enough violence as is, right? Do we need to import more violence?

 

He's the first candidate in my lifetime actively to run against American institutions like... you know... the Constitution itself. And to have as virtually his only campaign platform a systematic revenge against his opponent.

Trump will be the worst disaster to hit everyone in the US, even people who vote for him, but especially for people of color and LGBTQIA people. There's not going to be this flood of Muslims into the country that turn it into a sharia state. That's an absurdist argument. But you already have plenty of people in the US who are threatening violence if they don't get their Trump as president. There are people at the early voting polls toting weapons (their legal right, of course) but asking everyone who enters, "Are you voting for Crooked Hillary?" And then you have the Newsweek story about just how invested Putin is in getting Trump into the White House so he can fracture NATO with all his belligerent "You guys aren't paying your way!" talk. Putin knows our NATO allies don't want a fool of a Trump to deal with. I don't believe the rumors going around Trump is actively on Putin's payroll, but that doesn't mean that Putin and company haven't been prevaricating in a pro-Trump way because they know he'll destabilize the West while Clinton will stand up to them. Trump is a fraud, a criminal and an imbecile and his VP pick is a LGTBQIA-hating retrograde and religious fanatic. Trump has put forth almost no actual policies other than the ridiculous fantasy of making Mexico pay for a giant wall and closing mosques, but he's voiced plenty of threats at retribution against those who oppose him or don't support him. He went to Gettysburg where Lincoln spoke of reconciliation and hope and spent thirty minutes haranguing people with threats of jail and lawsuits and vengeance if elected.

He has the exclusive support of the KKK and neo-Nazi groups and none from anyone with any kind of intelligence or moral bearing. He has people threatening armed rebellion if he doesn't win and he's fanning those flames by hinting he won't accept anything less than his own total victory as a result. No presidential candidate in US history has said something so asinine and in a normal year without Russian interference and 8 years of white racist anger boiling over at a fantasy version of Barack Obama Fox News and Breitbart invented for them any ONE of Trump's ridiculous ranting or scandals would have ended his candidacy. Howard Dean's tanked because he screamed with joy. But Trump's on tape bragging about sexual assault and he's still in the race thanks to the director of the FBI violating the Hatch Act. And a cowardly press that's bowed to threats of violence and lawsuits themselves and pretend Trump is an ordinary candidate rather than a know-nothing demagogue with a shady past and no future.

Telling yourself differently by inventing this mass migration of Muslims is symptomatic of some serious cognitive dissonance. But you know, go ahead and vote for Trump if you love white authoritarianism more than you love the progress we've made over the past 60 years or so...

Which is what Trump's candidacy is directly a response to. White people opposing progress and trying to hold onto power even unto their own destruction, and even if it means surrendering the rest of the world to Putin.

Good luck with that. Better make sure you take advantage of the 2nd Amendment. You're going to need those guns to hunt for food in the post-apocalyptic dystopia you're voting to bring about.

 

At least you openly admit to replying without actually caring about what you're typing. I don't see the point in answering irrelevant questions, sorry.

If you really want to know, if someone were to point a gun at my head and ask me such a question, I would lie and try to figure out what they want to hear and I would tell them that. Therefore, the answer I'll be giving won't be sincere and it won't convey any information about my opinion of the matter.

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As for your other question, I'll just quote myself:

Even though you probably will not read this properly, some people see death as "liberating" and could thus argue that it gives them freedom. Pointless example once again.

Now you ask me about "if you [...] then to you [...]". The point is, I don't view death as freedom. I didn't give my personal opinion about that matter. It's you who's not reading my messages properly. So to answer your question, I don't view death as liberating myself. The other questions "so then" are therefore redundant.

 

When I say I work in the financial markets, without getting too specific what I'm trying to say is my income, my net worth is tied to making decisions about current events and the market. I did not lose money over Brexit, even though others did. If Trump were to win, the stock markets would take a dip temporarily. I can make money even if the market goes down however. In addition, I've correctly predicted the outcome of the last 5 US presidential elections. I'm not a Trump or Clinton supporter, this is not personal, and has nothing to do with who I want as president, just who I know is going to win. There are a couple of things that I actually think Trump might be right about, although those things are not enough to make me ignore the rest. Even if I were voting for him however, that doesn't change what I know is going to be the outcome.

Sigh. :rolle: We'll see the day after.

On the bolded I agree, sort of. I think the days after the election will be interesting also, but for different reasons.

 

I am very afraid regardless of the results.

I am certainly afraid of a Clinton Presidency due to her lack of judgement on her e-mails, her previous foreign policy decisions such as her Iraq war vote and her presidency likely leading to increased tension with Russia and her policies in general as I feel that they will go little to stem the inequality in the United States. However, I can forgive her past views of the LGBTIQ community as I know of many people who have genuinely changed their views on our community, she may have changed out of political convenience but I will give her a pass on this one issue.

I am afraid of a Trump Presidency for very different reasons. I feel that his presidency would lead to much more overt and covert racism in the US largely due to his rhetoric and I genuinely fear for minorities under a Trump Presidency, I feel that is economic plan is far worse than Clinton's (and I am not exactly a fan of her plan) and I feel that his foreign policy is as bad if not worse than Clinton's. I do agree with him on some issues particularly the TPP which I feel will undermine the sovereignty of the nations within it.

There is one issue, however, that completely tips the scales in one direction for me and that is commitment to democratic values which is where Clinton wins. The situation with Bernie and the DNC was a disgrace however I feel Trump will undermine democratic values in a much more fundamental way than Clinton. Trump has shown autocratic tendencies in the campaign, has hinted at assassination on political rivals and a lack of faith in the democratic process.

I can't vote due to my nationality but I would hold my nose and vote Clinton.

 

I'm afraid of a Trump presidency as well.

He calls himself a friend of the gays, and he's not exactly our enemy, but according to politifact.com and others news: "Trump has consistently opposed same-sex marriage in interviews since 2000. He also said he would consider appointing justices to the Supreme Court who would favor reversing the decision and leave the issue of same-sex marriage to the states." Which won't mean good news for me, with the state I live in.

Clinton hasn't always been gay friendly, but I do believe she's changed her opinion.

Another thing that bothers me is all his talk about deporting imigrants. I live in Texas. I have Mexican friends. It wouldn't be fair to send these good, hard working people back to a country they worked so hard to leave. It wasn't easy, but they left because it was their only hope. Now they have kids, and what exactly is Trump planning to do? Send them all back? Separate the family? I wish he'd stop making himself look like a fool and actually explain some of his statements professionally.

 

You guys do realize that every President since George Washington up to Obama was the President of a government that didn't support gay marriage. It's not exactly weird given that history that a major political candidate wouldn't be best buds with the LGBT community.

What you should be worried about isn't someone who thinks marriage is between men and women, but someone who tells you that they love you to get your vote.

Seriously, if Trump is so openly anti-LGBT then the chances that he is going to take that view to some ridiculous and violent extreme is minimal. Trump isn't going to start throwing gay people in ovens.

He's also not going to be rounding up Mexican children and tossing them into the ocean. I don't care what the news told you. The fact is he's the only candidate in forever who is financing his own campaign and isn't bought and paid for.

If you vote for Hillary you're voting for a candidate just like her husband, like George W. Bought and paid for by money.

It's no wonder all these special interests have to spread that he is a racist and hates everyone.

Also, you guys need to go look up the Veritas videos. The stuff the DNC has done is far more terrible than anything Trump has said. Are you guys really going to vote for a campaign that has been starting fights, and calling African Americans who vote right race traitors.

Not to mention the video of that homeless Trump supporter being beaten up. Did you see that video?

 

Same. I dislike them both, but Hillary is a corrupt liar. Trump is just a huge douche bag. Too bad Jill Stein doesn't have much of a chance. :icon_sad:

---------- Post added 5th Nov 2016 at 09:37 PM ----------

I have to agree here. My coworker is even worried that Trump will bring slavery back. If that were true, Trump would be sniped out ASAP. Hell, if that happened, I'd become an anarchist and help bring him down. Trump seems like the kind of person who will like anyone who likes him. His ego depends on it.

I truly want to hate Trump more than Hillary, because I agree with her take on the economy. But I don't believe what she says. Also, considering all the dirt they have dug up on her... It's disgusting.

 

I'm assuming you read my comment, SkyWinter.

I actually never said I didn't vote for Trump... I also never said I thought he'd throw Mexican children into the ocean... I'm merely stating the things I don't agree with Donald Trump about.

I like neither candidates and hate that our only hope is in voting for "the lesser of two evils" as my grandpa always says.

A homeless person being beaten up is terrible, anybody being beaten is, but says nothing of the candidates themselves.

The fact that he can't be bought is one of the things I do like about him.

I can't wait until this election is over. Everyone is so tense.

 

I certainly care about what I'm typing, I just don't care about you as a person since you have demonstrated several times an unwillingness to use language correctly. That type of behavior is not rational, thus I feel under no obligation to give a crap about what you find irrelevant. Sorry.

Why would you have to lie? If someone with a gun pointed at you asked you to prove gravity was real would you have to lie to do it?

Some people think a blue piece of paper is red. Except it isn't. It's objectively blue. Their opinion about the color of the paper doesn't bend reality.

If someone believes that they are free when they have a gun to their head, well, they can think that if they want, but it doesn't bend reality. It doesn't change that they aren't free.