dealing with parents and religion

YAY! Finally, a pastor who is unbiased, especially given the fact that his son is gay as well. I'm glad that your parents are being supportive. And you should most definitely go to this fair you've mentioned and meet this guy! You are still young, so take your time, if you discover that you like this guy, then great! I'm going to be positive only, so hopefully it works in your favor. Just be yourself and be sure to make him laugh (*hug*)

 

Hook up with the pastors son! Haha that would be a bit ironic XD

 

Oh.

Nevermind ^_^

 

Check out the DVD "For the Bible tells me so". My parents come from the very judgmental type of evangelical Christian community that's heavily involved in right wing politics. It's like they live in a completely different world.

 

Yay for PFLAG pastors. I'm so glad you have a pastor who is going to help your family. You might want to make sure to share the Matthew Vines video with him, as well--he may not have seen it, and it might help him with his ministry.

It sounds like your parents are going to be supportive.

Just be yourself at the Renaissance fair, and see if you and the guy get along. I don't think it's wrong not to tell your parents when it isn't even a date, really, you're just meeting the guy. Unless they are going to keep you locked up all the time, they can't prevent you from meeting people.

 

Which video made you feel uncomfortable - the Homosexuality 101 video, or a different one? And regardless of which one it was, have you talked to your parents about your feelings on it, or do you feel like you are able to talk to them? If you do feel like you can, I would recommend doing that sooner rather than later.

Also, if you have a PFLAG center in your area, or anywhere nearby, you might be able to get in touch with them and see if there are any materials or information they can give your parents too. Ask your parents if they'd be willing to let you contribute outside information to the discussion, too.

The one thing I can say regarding the idea of "overcoming" one's sexuality is that there is no credible evidence anywhere in the scientific or psychiatric community that such a thing is possible - and there is even lots of evidence that trying to do so is ultimately very harmful for people.

 

Is the Homosexuality 101 video subtitled: "Where Does It Come From, Is Change Possible, and How Should Christians Respond?"

If so, that video was put out by Exodus International back in 2006. Exodus is a pray-the-gay away organization based in the US.

That raises some red flags. The pastor may not be as supportive as he first appeared. Alternatively, he may be ignorant about the origins of the video he gave you. Exodus always attempts to cloak their message in being supportive of people who are gay, when in reality their main focus is to try and draw you in and then change you.

Although, more recently Exodus has acknowledged that you can't stop being gay. In the past they used to argue that you could cure homosexuality through the power of prayer, and that you could live a straight life. Now, they say you can't change it, but you have to remain celibate through the power of Jesus. (They were kinda forced to admit it, since their leaders and members kept getting caught having sex with men after they were "cured".)

His son very well may be gay, but he could also be what is called a "reformed homosexual" - in other words, he's married a woman, and attempting to live a straight life... (I.E. Full of self-hatred due to religion, deep in the closet, and ruining the life of a woman to please his father.)

Even if he isn't "reformed" - I'd check the pastor's views on the matter. If his son is living an openly gay life with another man, how does he feel about it? If he's supportive and happy for his son, then he is likely ignorant of the video. If he gives some bullshit about "praying for him" then it was intentional, and he's a pray away the gay pastor.

I'd ask him up front. "Do you know who made this video?" If he knows it was made by Exodus, then ask him: "Do you know what they do?" If he does... then you've got your answer, and you don't need to hear anything more from him.

 

Ugh. Yeah, that's the guy. Pastor Jack Harren is part of Family Ties Ministries, which is located in Boynton Beach, Florida. He's part of Exodus International. I confirmed it by looking it up on the Exodus website.

What you need to keep in mind is that these people work by using a process known as "love bombing". It can make them appear very non-threatening. They feign friendship, love, and concern. So they'll say stuff like:

"It's okay, I understand what you're going through."

"I just want to be your friend."

"Your parents and I are concerned for you because we love you. We care about what happens to you."

"You're not the only one struggling with this, it's okay. We understand."

They'll also attempt to use flattery by commenting on your looks, personality, or intelligence.

"You're a very handsome young man."

"I can tell you're very mature for your age."

All of this is an attempt to get you to lower your guard and to trust them. It's a standard tactic used by cults to gain new recruits. You may have heard the old saying, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar." Nobody is ever lured in by criticism and abuse.

Once they've started to rope you in with false kindness, friendship, and love they then move to the next stage. That's when they start to chip away at your identity and self-esteem through veiled negative criticism. Alternatively, they may use propaganda to try and scare you.

"Did you know that most homosexual men die of AIDS?"

"Did you know studies have shown that homosexual men are never happy together? It's been proven that men can only be happy in a relationship with a woman."

"We only want what's best for you. Have you been praying on it?"

"You know what the bible says about homosexuality. We love you, and we just don't want you to get hurt."

"We're all sinners, but if you pray to god and ask for forgiveness he can cure you of this just like he's cured others."

This works by trying to build a bond with you, then trying to create shame and doubt by manipulating that bond. The love and friendship they offer is fake, because it's conditional. The condition it hinges on: You must change.

This is what makes love bombing so disgusting. Real friends, people who really care about you, do so without conditions. There is nothing there that says you're not good enough, or that you have to change to win their approval, love, or affection. And it's very easy, very, very easy to fall prey to this tactic.

So how should you handle this? Well, knowing how things will probably go down is a huge plus.

One of the things you'll want to try to do is separate him from your parents. Ask to speak to him alone. Make it seem as if you don't feel comfortable discussing things like this in front of your parents.

The reason you want to do this is because he'll end up enlisting your parents in the love bombing, since they already have an emotional bond with you. He'll say something, and then your parents will back it up by reaffirming it.

"You know god loves you? He cares about you deeply, just like your parents."

"We love you, that's why we brought you here. We just want what is best for you."

When you get him alone, take the opportunity to ask him for complete confidentiality. "Is everything we talk about here just between us? I mean, you're not going to go back and tell my parents everything, are you?"

Next, tell him that you don't really feel comfortable opening up about personal matters with a complete stranger. Ask if you can take some time to get to know him better. Almost certainly he will say yes, and the point of this is two fold. First, it's to undermine his strategy - in order for love bombing to work he has to focus on you, but if you're asking questions everything is focused on him. Second, it's to gather more information about him.

He's going to want to get you talking, and get you sharing things with him. If he presses you, just keep reverting back to the excuse, "I don't know. I mean, like I said I don't really feel comfortable. I was mostly hoping just to get to know you better, then have a chance to pray on it. Is it okay if I just take some time to think about it, after I get a chance to know you better?"

Ask him questions about his son, his relationship with his son, how he got involved in the type of work that he does, etc. As he talks more questions will pop into your head. For example, he might mention something about his wife. "Oh really? Where did you meet your wife? How did she get involved in this?" "Oh, wow! You met her on a cruise in the Caribbean? That's awesome! Did you hear about that cruise ship in the news recently, what would you and your wife had done had you been on that ship?" "Yeah, it was pretty horrible. I can't believe that happened. Do you think god was looking out for them?" "Yeah, well I don't know if god looks out for everybody or not... I mean, what about Adolf Hitler? Was god looking out for him, too?" Etc. Etc. Etc.

If you do your job well, he'll fill most of the time up talking about himself. Toward the end, reiterate your concern over confidentiality. "I just want to make sure again, everything we talk about is just between us right? You won't involve my parents?"

Finally, make sure you ask him, "Is it okay if we can talk more over the phone and e-mail? I mean, you're really far away, and I enjoyed talking to you."

This is to try and avoid in person meetings. Doing things over e-mail gives you time to think. Doing things over the phone is less personal, making it more difficult for him to manipulate you.

Once you know more about him, you'll have a better idea on how to manipulate him. Then as you communicate with him long distance, over time, write about how you can feel your "homosexual desires decreasing." Then eventually write him about how you've had your "first crush on a girl!" Blah, blah, blah. Feed him what he wants to hear in an attempt to buy yourself time until you become an adult. Then you can drop him like a hot potato as you run off to college to live your life.

Once you get financially stable and can support yourself, you can then come back out to your parents. My biggest fear is that they'll send you to a pray the gay away camp. That's why you want to string the pastor along, because if he thinks you're getting better, then he might not suggest to your parents more drastic measures.

 

Yeah, I'm sorry. When I first read your post I was excited for you, thinking that you had found a LGBT friendly pastor who could support you and help educate your parents. When you mentioned that the DVD he sent them was talking about "curing" the gay... ugh. I got worried, decided to check it out, and sure enough it was produced by Exodus.

Sorry. I wish I could have delivered better news.

But yeah, that's my suggestion. String him along, tell him what he needs to hear to keep him off your back, and try to avoid situations where your parents and he can gang up on you. You're biding your time until you're an adult and head off to college. Once there, you'll be free, and once you're financially independent you can try again. This way they can't hold anything over you and try to force you to do something.

As a minor, they can force you to go to a pray the gay away camp against your will. They can't do that once you're an adult, but they can still threaten to not pay for college or something else. Sadly, this guy almost certainly knows about some of those camps, and has probably sent kids there in the past.

I'm unsure if he's going to take Exodus' old position or their new position. Their old position was that being gay could be cured, but their new one is that you can't be cured - you just need to remain celibate. I know some of their members rebelled after that announcement. So just be prepared for either of those "suggestions" when you go Wednesday.

Then, just keep him talking by asking questions, and try and see if you can do this thing with him long distance. So long as he's satisfied and feels you're making "progress" he likely won't recommend a straight camp.

 

You ARE who you ARE. The way you were born is not a "choice" and these religious church camps where they try to make you someone you are not? "Pray away the gay" What a pile of nonsense. I am sorry. I believe good Christians accept people exactly the way they ARE. Especially their own children. Be proud of who you are and unless you are doing something illegal...dont change who you are. Its a sin? That doesnt fly. We are ALL sinners. So what. Everyone should be who they are. Dont allow someone to brainwash you.

 

Hey Josh,
When it comes to these meetings, you have a few options. The best is just to try to get out of them. Then you don't have to worry about them at all.

Plan B would be to decide if you are going to "go with the flow" or fight back. If you go with the fight back route, be prepared to get into an argument. Have different translations of bible verses and different interpretations of them.

The main thing is that being gay is natural. It's not a sin. You're not going to hell. You have to remember that the whole way through this process.

I hope this helps some, feel free to PM me if you need to talk or vent.

 

I'm glad that you at least survived. What I read makes me think it went as well as you could hope for.

I'm sure others will have good strategies. The one thing I've found, though, is that it's pointless arguing with a fundamentalist. There is no way to win, and you go crazy trying. But that's only my experience.

A final point: please remember no matter what that all this "gay is a huge sin" talk is just one view. More liberal churches no longer consider it a sin.